The Book of Shredder

[japes]

yea

[Viegon]

Yea

[Arkham]

Yea

[dok]

No concerns.

[johnny139]

Yea

[quozl]

Ran 1st playtest today. Shredder & 3x Hand Ninja vs a Lt. Stone and a bunch of cops. They never touched Shredder and Antagonizing Presence was really powerful although it did work against the ninja almost as much as it worked for them. I'm going to try Shredder & 2x Hand Ninja vs. Pluto and Shredder & 1x Hand Ninja vs some 330 & 340 cost heroes.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

No competitive concerns from me. Though thematically, should Splinter be immune to the attack boost part of the first power? It just seems odd to me that he 'wisely' decides not to benefit from something for... reasons? Like everyone else is like 'holly crap the Shredder!' and he's just like 'nah, ain't no thing but a chicken wing'. The immunity to the defense bit makes sense, but I'd think he'd still fight extra hard to stop his main bad guy. Though I'm not familiar with the IDW version of the turtles, so I guess their Splinter could just be a dispassionate sociopath or something.

[quozl]

Any suggestions on how to word that?

This seems a little awkward to me:

ANTAGONIZING PRESENCE
All figures that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Shredder add 1 to their Attack number when attacking an adjacent figure and, if they are not Wise, subtract 1 from their Defense number when defending against an adjacent figure.

Also, after lots of testing, Shredder seems balanced at 250 points with Attack/Defense lowered to 4/4. However, I'm going to try some more tests with his Attack raised back to 5 and his Life lowered to 5. He'll be weak defending from range but will have a much better offensive output.

[quozl]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Shredder
Map: Hulk of the Holdfast (by Velenne) (no glyphs)

Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 3x Hand Ninja (505 total points) VS Lt. Stone, Code Blue Officer, 2x Bad Cops, 3x SWAT Assaulter, 2x SWAT Rifleman, 1x Beat Cops (505 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 5 Attack, and 5 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly - used a few times against Shredder & the Hand Ninja
Whirlwind Attack: Used 2 times
Ruthless Counter Strike: Shredder was never attacked

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Bad Cops move
ARMY 1: Shredder & Hand Ninja move
ARMY 2: Bad Cops KO 2 Hand Ninja. (1 benefited from Antagonizing Presence)
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs a Bad Cop & Hand Ninja KO a Bad Cop (both benefited from AP)
ARMY 2: Code Blue Officer attacks a Hand Ninja but gets 0W & 2 SWAT Assaulters move
ARMY 1: Shredder moves and Hand Ninja attack (benefiting from AP) but get 0W. Also, a Hand Ninja attacked from range and got 0W.

Round Two: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Bad Cops attack Hand Ninja (benefiting from AP) and KO 1 of them and remove the X OM
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs the Code Blue Officer (no shields) & Hand Ninja KO a Bad Cop and a SWAT Assaulter (without AP)
ARMY 2: Lt. Stone KOs a Hand Ninja & SWAT Assaulter moves into engagement so a SWAT Rifleman can shoot a Hand Ninja 3 times but still get 0W.
ARMY 1: Shredder uses Whirlwind Attack on a Beat Cop and Lt. Stone, KOing the Beat Cop but getting 0W on Lt. Stone & Hand Ninja KO a SWAT Assaulter and put 1W on Lt. Stone (using AP)
ARMY 2: Lt. Stone KOs a Hand Ninja (using AP)
ARMY 1: Shredder uses Whirlwind Attack on a Beat Cop and Lt. Stone, KOing the Beat Cop and putting 2W on Lt. Stone & Hand Ninja KO a SWAT Rifleman but get 0W on Lt. Stone (using AP)

Round Three: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: SWAT Rifleman KOs a Hand Ninja and shoots for Shredder but gets 0W
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs Lt. Stone & Hand Ninja KO a Beat Cop
ARMY 2: OM was on Lt. Stone
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks SWAT Rifleman but gets 0W & Hand Ninja KO the SWAT Rifleman
Shredder was unwounded and 3 Hand Ninja were left

GAME SUMMARY:
This went really badly for the police.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 2x Hand Ninja (420 total points) VS Pluto (420 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 5 Attack, and 5 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly - was used 1 time against Shredder
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 1 time to put 2W on Pluto

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Pluto shoots Shredder but gets 0W
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja attack (using AP) but get 0W
ARMY 2: Pluto KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja attack (using AP) but get 0W

Round Two: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Pluto but gets 0W & Hand Ninja attack Pluto (using AP) and get 2W, 0W, 0W
ARMY 2: Pluto attacks Shredder for 1W and gets 2W from Ruthless Counterstrike after removing 2 Hand Ninja for extra attack
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Pluto but gets 0W & Hand Ninja attack Pluto (using AP) and get 2W, 0W, 0W - KOing Pluto

Shredder had 1W/6 Life and 4 Hand Ninja were left

GAME SUMMARY:
This went pretty badly for Pluto but at least Shredder got wounded.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 1x Hand Ninja (335 total points) VS Super Skrull (340 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 5 Attack, and 5 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly - was used 0 times against Shredder
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 0 times

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Super Skrull attacks Shredder from range and gets 2W
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Super Skrull but gets 0W & Hand Ninja attack Super Skrull (using AP) for 2W and 1W
ARMY 2: Super Skrull flies away and KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder & Hand Ninja chase Super Skrull

Round Two: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Super Skrull KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Super Skrull for 1W & Hand Ninja attack for 1W (using AP)
ARMY 2: Super Skrull KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs Super Skrull

Shredder had 2W/6 Life and no Hand Ninja were left

GAME SUMMARY:
Although Super Skrull did better (with disengage, flying, and range), I decided to lower Shredder's Attack/Defense to 4/4.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 1x Hand Ninja (335 total points) VS Super Skrull (340 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 4 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly - was used 0 times against Shredder
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 0 times

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Super Skrull attacks Shredder from range and gets 4W (no shields)
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Super Skrull but gets 0W (no skulls) & Hand Ninja attack Super Skrull (using AP) for 1W, 0W, 0W
ARMY 2: Super Skrull flies away and KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Super Skrull for 1W & Hand Ninja attack Super Skrull for 0W and 1W

Round Two: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Super Skrull KOs Shredder
ARMY 1: Hand Ninja attack and both get Bounced Back and KOed

Super Skrull had 4W/6 Life

GAME SUMMARY:
This was much closer although Super Skrull had some lucky rolls here.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 1x Hand Ninja (335 total points) VS Non (330 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 4 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 1 time for 1W

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Non KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Non but gets 0W & Hand Ninja attack Non (using AP) for 1W
ARMY 2: Non KOs a Hand Ninja and then attacks Shredder for 5W, taking 1W from Ruthless Counterstrike
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Non for 3W & Hand Ninja KO Non

Shredder had 5W/6 Life and 1 hand Ninja was left

GAME SUMMARY:
This was close and looking balanced.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 1x Hand Ninja (335 total points) VS Sinestro (330 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 4 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 0 times

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Sinestro KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: 2 Hand Ninja attack Sinestro from range but get 0W
ARMY 2: Sinestro KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Sinestro for 3W & Hand Ninja attacks but gets 0W
ARMY 2: Sinestro uses Force of Fear & 1 battery marker to KO the Hand Ninja and hit Shredder for 2W (Ruthless Counterstrike does not work on special attacks)
ARMY 1: OM lost on Hand Ninja

Round Two: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Sinestro but the shield is used
ARMY 2: Sinestro uses Force of Fear but gets 0W
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Sinestro but the shield is used
ARMY 2: Sinestro uses Force of Fear & KOs Shredder

Sinestro had 3W/5 Life and 1 battery marker was left

GAME SUMMARY:
This was close and looking balanced.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 1x Hand Ninja (335 total points) VS Zero-G, Mass Master, and Molly Hayes (340 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 4 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly for and against Shredder's army
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 2 times for 4W

Round One: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Mass Master for 2W & Hand Ninja attack Mass Master (using AP) but get 0W
ARMY 2: Mass Master flies over a Hand Ninja and KOs him (using AP)
ARMY 1: Hand Ninja attack Zero-G for 2W (from range)
ARMY 2: Molly Hayes KOs a Hand Ninja

Round Two: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Molly Hayes is fatigued
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Moly but gets 0W & Hand Ninja attack Zero-G but get 0W
ARMY 2: Molly attacks Shredder for 3W and takes 3W from Ruthless Counterstrike
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Molly but gets 0W
ARMY 2: Molly attacks Shredder for 2W and takes 1W from Ruthless Counterstrike
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Molly but gets 0W

Round Three: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Molly but gets 0W & Hand Ninja attack Zero-G but gets 0W
ARMY 2: Molly Hayes KOs Shredder
ARMY 1: OM lost on Shredder
ARMY 2: Molly is fatigued

Round Four: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Hand Ninja KO Molly
ARMY 2: OM lost on Molly
ARMY 1: Hand Ninja KOs Mass Master
ARMY 2: Zero-G attacks hand Ninja but gets 0W
ARMY 1: Hand Ninja KOs Zero-G

1 Hand Ninja left

GAME SUMMARY:
Very balanced but I started thinking Shredder needed his Attack raised.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 1x Hand Ninja (335 total points) VS Dr. Doom (Hasbro) and 9 Moloids (335 points)

Shredder was tested here with 6 Life, 4 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly for and against Shredder's army
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 1 time to KO a Moloid

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Doom attacks Shredder but gets 0W & Moloids attack Hand Ninja (using AP) but get 0W
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs a Moloid & Hand Ninja KO 2 Moloids (using AP)
ARMY 2: Doom attacks Shredder for 1W & Moloids KO all Hand Ninja (using AP) and attack Shredder for 2W (1 Moloid dies to Ruthless Counterstrike)
ARMY 1: OM lost on Hand Ninja

Round Two: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Doom attacks Shredder for 3W & Moloids KO Shredder

Doom was unwounded and 5 Moloids were left

GAME SUMMARY:
Antagonizing Presence really hurts when you get swarmed. With Doom's bonus and AP, the Moloids were rolling 4 sttack dice each.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 2x Hand Ninja (420 total points) VS Hawkeye II(160) and Iron Fist (260) (420 points)

Shredder was tested here with 5 Life, 5 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly for and against Shredder's army
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 1 time to KO Iron Fist

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Hawkeye carries Iron Fist and shoots Shredder for 1W
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja attack Hawkeye from range for 2W
ARMY 2: Iron Fist KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Iron Fist but gets 0W & Hand Ninja attack Iron Fist (using AP) but get 0W
ARMY 2: Hawkeye KOs a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Iron Fist for 1W & Hand Ninja attack Iron Fist (using AP) for 2W, 0W, 0W

Round Two: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Iron Fist rolls 8 attack dice vvs. Shredder and hits for 3W but then KOs to Ruthless Counterstrike
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs Hawkeye

Shredder had 4W/5 Life and 4 Hand Ninja were left

GAME SUMMARY:
This was looking better as Shredder could hit hard now.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 2x Hand Ninja (420 total points) VS Joker(140), Hugo Strange, and 2x Arkham Inmates(415 points)

Shredder was tested here with 5 Life, 5 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly for and against Shredder's army
Whirlwind Attack: used 1 time
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 1 time to KO Hugo Strange

Round One: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2 moves, ARMY 1 moves, ARMY 2 moves
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja KO 3 Arkham Inmates
ARMY 2: Arkham Inmates KO 1 Hand Ninja and 1 Inmate gets KOed from disengaging
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja attack Hugo Strange for 1W and KO an Arkham Inmate

Round Two: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks with Whirlwind Attack Hugo Strange for 2W and Joker for 1W & Hand Ninja attack Joker for 1W and KO an Arkham Inmate
ARMY 2: Hugo Strange used Mutagenic Experiment on himself at the beginning of the round and attacks Shredder for 2W but gets KOed from Ruthless Counterstrike
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks joker for 1W & Hand Ninja KO an Arkham IN mateand attack Joker for 1W
ARMY 2: OM lost on Hugo Strange
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks Joker for 1W & Hand Ninja KO Joker

Shredder had 2W/5 Life and 5 Hand Ninja were left

GAME SUMMARY:
This was just really bad luck for the Insane team.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 2x Hand Ninja (420 total points) VS Batman (250) (with Flash-Bang Grenade, Smoke Pellets, and Bat Shuriken) and Catwoman (170) (420 points)

Shredder was tested here with 5 Life, 5 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense some but most attacks were from range this battle
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 0 times

Round One: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja move
ARMY 2: Batman uses shuriken to KO a Hand Ninja and Catwoman misses with her Bolas on Shredder
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja attack but Batman uses Smoke Pellets to move away
ARMY 2: Batman uses shuriken to KO a Hand Ninja and Catwoman moves
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja attack Batman for 2W but 1 gets KOed from Shadow Strike
ARMY 2: Batman uses shuriken to KO a Hand Ninja and Catwoman uses Bolas on Shredder and KOs a Hand Ninja

Round Two: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder removes Bolas & Hand Ninja attack Catwoman but get 0W
ARMY 2: Batman KOs a Hand Ninja & Catwoman bolas Shredder again
ARMY 1: Shredder removes Bolas
ARMY 2: Batman attacks Shredder with shuriken and KOs him in 2 hits for 5W

Batman had 2W/4 Life and Catwoman was unwounded

GAME SUMMARY:
Batman and Catwoman are awesome against armies with no range. Also, there was some bad luck with attack rolls by the Hand.


Army Test
Units: Shredder (250), 2x Hand Ninja (420 total points) VS Karnilla and 9 Moloids (420 points)

Shredder was tested here with 5 Life, 5 Attack, and 4 Defense

Spoiler Alert!

UNIT SUM-UP
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Antagonizing Presence: Boosted attack and lowered defense almost constantly for and against Shredder's army
Whirlwind Attack: not used
Ruthless Counter Strike: used 2 times to KO 2 Moloids

Round One: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja move
ARMY 2: Karnilla & Moloids move
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs a Moloid & Hand Ninja KO 3 Moloids
ARMY 2: Karnilla KOs a Hand Ninja & Moloids KO a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder KOs a Moloid & Hand Ninja move
ARMY 2: Karnilla attacks a Hand Ninja but gets 0W & Moloids attack Hand Ninja and get 1 KO

Round Two: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Shredder moves & Hand Ninja attack Karnilla for 2W
ARMY 2: Karnilla KOs a Hand Ninja & Moloids KO a Hand Ninja
ARMY 1: Shredder attacks a Moloid but gets 0W & Hand Ninja KO a Moloid
ARMY 2: Karnilla KOs a Hand Ninja & Moloids attack Shredder for 1W and 1 is KOed to Ruthless Counterstrike
ARMY 1: OM lost on Hand Ninja
ARMY 2: Moloids attack Shredder for 1W and 1 is KOed to Ruthless Counterstrike

Round Three: Army 2 wins Initiative.
Karnilla tries for love but fails. Shredder attacks Karnilla for 2W.

Round Four: Army 1 wins Initiative.
Shredder attacks Karnilla for 1W. Karnilla tries for love but fails. Shredder KOs Karnilla.

Shredder had 2W/5 Life

GAME SUMMARY:
This was really close.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I like Shredder at 250 points with 5 Life, 5 Attack, and 4 Defense. It seems balanced and it feels like Shredder.

[Viegon]

5 life, 5 attack, 4 defense at 250 looks good to me.

[Tornado]

Really cool and an awesome price point!

[Ronin]

Nice. Looking good to me, too.

You've got this mini listed in the OP. Are you committed to him? I've got this one, and could get some pictures of it.