C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by dok

Team tournaments are a different animal, but that's still impressive. Are the army lists posted? Did you see a lot of range? I fully acknowledge that he's murder against most melee squads, but it seems like if either army has range he can get picked off in endgame just fine.

I would expect him to last a while most of the time just because I would normally focus on the squad figures first if I was facing that army, until I had them down below a full squad.

Go here for armies listed.

We did see a lot of range, and I had to face a lot of it too.

Round 1:
[My Army] + Cyprien, Sonya, Iskra, Retchets
vs
Zelrig, Krav, Siiv, Drow Chain + Iron Golem, Krav, Q10
yes...that was 2 squads of Krav we had to fight against

Round 2:
[My Army] + HydrasX2, Zetacron
vs
MinionsX2, Syvarris, Blk Wyrm + Cyprien, Sonya, Iskra, Retchets

Round 3:
[My Army] + Nilfeim, GreenscalesX2, White Wyrm
vs
Hydras X2, Zetacron + Q10, Mezzos X3

Round 4:
[My Army] + Arktos, Greyspears, Master of the Hunt
vs
Hydras X2, Zetacron + Nilfeim, GreenscalesX2, White Wyrm

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Kinseth

If something gets better , something else has to get worse.

I agree with Dysole and dok on this. Releasing the 10th Regiment of Foot didn't significantly impact the 4th Mass. enough to drop their grade (despite the obvious comparisons and power levels), and I don't think that releasing new units like Lao Xin that improve the monks inherently makes something else worse (or at least not to a noticeable degree). Unless something gets completely outclassed, which the VC has been pretty careful to avoid doing, I don't think that bumping up units' powers necessitates a drop to some older ones.

There are of course some exceptions. Omnicron Repulsors getting better with Omegacron does weaken many SoulBorg builds, and Braxas/squad killers getting better weakens expensive common armies. That's generally more of on an individual basis, though, and often not so effective as to wreck an entire army's standing with one bad match-up.

[dok]

Absolutely; if I thought that, say, the Monk build was so significant in the metagame that it makes builds that rely on adjacency bonuses worse, then I might reduce the rankings of the Romans and similar armies when I raise the rankings of the Monks. But barring something like that, I don't feel any need to lower rankings simply to maintain a balance.

[superfrog]

I'm working on a Google Spreadsheet that will automate a lot of the work here. It'll take a lot of work to get it up and running, but once that's done, it'll be a bunch of plug and play that will generate all the forum code needed.

[Gurei-Ornery]

Originally Posted by dok

Yeah, it's just the last wave. First cut:

Locksley - His first two powers are useless a lot of the time, but he still packs Major-league range and attacking power and helps a Brigand build establish board control. B+

Master Lao Xin - The Shaolin Street Sweeper (Master Woo + Master Lao Xin + Monks x3) is on par with the old Steamroller. The limited range on Woo's influence is a big issue, but whirlwind assault and stealth leap can do some work. B

Yi Feng - The least useful offensively of the Monks, but cheap and easy to throw into the fray. B-

Zhen Yuan - Not much more than a heroic version of the Monks but useful for taking pressure off the squad figures and masters. B-

Chen Tang - Quivering Palm is very cool but outside of a handful of matchups it's tough to justify taking him over another squad of monks. B-

Shaolin Monks -> B
Master Woo -> B

I am running a My Time to Shine Tournament (Rated B and below) in a couple of weeks and would like to add these figures to the list. Have you had anymore thoughts about them. I am leaning towards letting them in at these ratings.

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by superfrog

I'm working on a Google Spreadsheet that will automate a lot of the work here. It'll take a lot of work to get it up and running, but once that's done, it'll be a bunch of plug and play that will generate all the forum code needed.

And now 5 months later I've found the motivation to finish it. It's in the VC Index Put-Together-er, on the second tab (cleverly titled "Power Rankings").

Provide the Unit Name, Points, Role, Book URL #, Commonality, Power Ranking, Classic Power Ranking (or N/A), and the Blurb for down below.

The sheet spits out forum code that puts it all together for you, down to the bolding and coloring and asterisks and colons and all that.

I've added the Monks and Locksley to the sheet.

Here's a stab at some of the later units, but feel free to disagree with me:

Arthur of Sherwood: Handy against screens for Brigand builds. Can grab t-glyphs for Locksley if they're around. B

Azazel the Kyrie Warrior: Hard to optimize for in smaller games. Dies too fast, but that's only temporary. B

Bol: 10-point turn insurance is nice. Not Isamu good, though. B+

Boreos: A pain against melee squads. Who even thought of Range 2 anyway? B+/A-

Gothlok: Surprisingly tanky, and a good fit with Death Chasers and Nerak. B+/A-

Kozil: 8 life is no joke, and each one comes with some teeth. B+

Maltis Tez: Good for what he is: a glyph grabber that might get some Moon Frenzy turns. B

Talingul: Having Boreos and Augamo is pretty fantastic. 6 life, too. B+/A-

Tetraites: If Crixus traded defense for offense. B+

I'll wait until these are all sorted before adding the whole batch plus the monks to the OP.

Other moves to consider:

Nottingham Brigand --> B+
Iron Golem --> B+
Greater Ice Elemental --> B-

[superfrog]

Any thoughts, @dok ?

[superfrog]

Some thoughts on the new releases:

Banshees of Durgeth Swamp: Surprisingly tricky to use Scream without overextending. B
Buccaneers of Tortuga: A few initiatives and a hot d20 can make the pirates devastating. B+

[Cleon]

I have to get back to updating my rankings and rank the newest 9 units, also need to finish the descriptions (those take forever).

Do you really think Master Woo is that much better? He still seems like a waste to me. You have to keep the monks so close, and regarding his cost.

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by Cleon

I have to get back to updating my rankings and rank the newest 9 units, also need to finish the descriptions (those take forever).

Do you really think Master Woo is that much better? He still seems like a waste to me. You have to keep the monks so close, and regarding his cost.

I'm not sold on Woo at B, but the Whirlwind of 4 can be a big deal. Since you have to take a turn with at least one Hero when using Sifu, you might as well put a couple of those turns to Woo.

As I said in the OP: "The limited range on his influence is a big deal, but at least you don't need a dedicated OM to set it up anymore."

[Rich10]

Something I noticed on the first page, Stingers are 60 points.
Marro Stingers (70*)

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by Rich10

Something I noticed on the first page, Stingers are 60 points.
Marro Stingers (70*)

Always nice to see one of our old faces poking around!

I went ahead and updated the OP.

@dok , any chance we'll get rankings for the newest units? I'm happy to continue updating the OP if you tell me what to put there.