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  #4441  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 10:40 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Thanks for giving him a shot. I'm considering a new version, but the Resilience/Reckless Barrage interaction really was the whole point of the design. Since that was the problem, the design is pretty much pointless.
Forb what it's worth, I like him, and that feature seems good to me.


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  #4442  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 07:49 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Their size could be an issue. Is it thematic for a figure that small to get 4 attack dice?

Other than that I like the card very much.
That's a fair point; it is a bit unrealistic. However, there's a few points of comparison among Small figures - the Axecutters have 4 attack against Large and Huge figures, the Goblin Cutters can subtract 2 defense dice, and the Wolves of Badru can get 5 attack with their Pounce. All of these are different circumstances, obviously, and the Kobolds are small even by Small standards, but it says to me that figures at that level can get into the 4-5 range under certain conditions. I think the Axegrinders are the best comparison - little guys that, thematically, are tenacious enough to do real damage if they need to.

It's up to the individual whether it's justifiable, though.
If I accept Cap's objection as one to the mechanics, the comparison to the Cutters is sound. It is not, however, a thematic justification for a unit that reaches to the height of the Knights' knees having the same attack they do.

As you say, people have to decide for themselves.

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Last edited by Dad_Scaper; November 25th, 2014 at 09:25 AM.
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  #4443  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 09:47 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

It also doesn't make any sense that the MacDirk Warriors can share the same attack dice with the likes of Su-Bak-Na, but that's how the game works sometimes. The kobolds become enraged at the loss of their Master and tap an inner strength that they could not know before. When we're dealing with magical creatures like this, I wouldn't sweat the realism too much.

As always, it's up to each individual judge on that but I personally don't see a conditional attack boost for small figures as game breaking, especially when they operate at safe values for most of the game.
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  #4444  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 09:56 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Bah. The original designers (I imagine) knew, looking at the Cutters' sculpts, that they could not have an attack higher than 2. So they figured out a thematic way to allow them to do some damage with their little pins and needles regardless. The issue, for me, is not the power boost to 4 attack; it's have 3 attack to begin with. Though having it boost to 4 is no help.


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  #4445  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 09:58 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Bah. The original designers (I imagine) knew, looking at the Cutters' sculpts, that they could not have an attack higher than 2. So they figured out a thematic way to allow them to do some damage with their little pins and needles regardless. The issue, for me, is not the power boost to 4 attack; it's have 3 attack to begin with. Though having it boost to 4 is no help.

Their base attack is 2.
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  #4446  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Bah. The original designers (I imagine) knew, looking at the Cutters' sculpts, that they could not have an attack higher than 2. So they figured out a thematic way to allow them to do some damage with their little pins and needles regardless. The issue, for me, is not the power boost to 4 attack; it's have 3 attack to begin with. Though having it boost to 4 is no help.

Huh?

Did you mean that their base attack is too high? Or that anything higher than 2 is?

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  #4447  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 10:00 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I thought it was 3->4. Hmm. Well, in that case 2->3 might make them salvageable, IMHO. But this is not a workshopping thread.

edit: @FS ~ I do not think there is a thematic justification for 4. It is my opinion and I am not a judge, but I want to be clear that my objection is thematic, and canonic, and not to the mechanic itself.

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  #4448  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 10:04 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post

edit: @FS ~ I do not think there is a thematic justification for 4. It is my opinion and I am not a judge, but I want to be clear that my objection is thematic, and canonic, and not to the mechanic itself.
Ok that makes a little more sense. Thanks.

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  #4449  
Old November 23rd, 2014, 10:07 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'll give the Kobolds an to review. The size issue doesn't bother me enough to keep me from trying them out, but it is one of those things that could combine with other minor issues to turn a borderline yea into a nay.

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Last edited by caps; November 23rd, 2014 at 10:09 PM. Reason: 3 attack instead of 4 would feel better, even if not viable. However, 7-dice Macdirks are a persuasive counter-argument.
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  #4450  
Old November 24th, 2014, 05:54 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
edit: @FS ~ I do not think there is a thematic justification for 4. It is my opinion and I am not a judge, but I want to be clear that my objection is thematic, and canonic, and not to the mechanic itself.
For me, the kobolds having 4 attack is just as coherent as the macDirk having 7 attack (the same as Su-Bak-Na, or nearly Jotun !), DW9k having 9 def or the Feral troll having 1 def.

Those numbers are what they are because they are needed to support a style of gameplay for those unit, rather than to be thematic. They are needed for the units to perfom how they were envisioned, and it take over on the thematic point of view. I think the creator of Heroscape went for playability over thematic.
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  #4451  
Old November 24th, 2014, 08:09 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Lyrgard View Post
For me, the kobolds having 4 attack is just as coherent as the macDirk having 7 attack (the same as Su-Bak-Na, or nearly Jotun !), DW9k having 9 def or the Feral troll having 1 def.

Those numbers are what they are because they are needed to support a style of gameplay for those unit, rather than to be thematic. They are needed for the units to perfom how they were envisioned, and it take over on the thematic point of view. I think the creator of Heroscape went for playability over thematic.
I find those arguments convincing, but I do so because I think they express a theme via an extreme mechanic rather than that theme was sacrificed.

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  #4452  
Old November 24th, 2014, 11:08 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Wow. I'm out for a few days and look at all this activity. You're all making me feel like a slacker.

Thrangir has received two Nay votes (Scytale and Soundwarp SG-1) and is removed from the process.

Warden 722 has received two Nay votes (Soundwarp SG-1 and Son of Arathorn) and is removed from the process.

The Kobolds of Idona Keep have received 5 Yea votes to review (superfrog, Soundwarp SG-1, vegietarian18, Son of Arathorn, and capsocrates) and move forward in the process.
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