Kaemon Awa Strategy Review

[dok]

Originally Posted by Tornado

All such maps should be banned.
I am sick of and tired of Zombies being discriminated against. All they want is to nibble on your brains and show you the Way of the Undead.
Brains and hugs, not drugs.

Giving zombies the same "compare to the lowest figure" language that Ashigaru Yari have would be high on my list of changes I would make to cards if I could.

Agreed with Foudzing on the true bad matchups for Kaemon, of course. The less said about the OP, the better.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Tornado

All such maps should be banned.
I am sick of and tired of Zombies being discriminated against. All they want is to nibble on your brains and show you the Way of the Undead.
Brains and hugs, not drugs.

Freaking hilarious, I love it. Keep this stuff coming.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by dok

Giving zombies the same "compare to the lowest figure" language that Ashigaru Yari have would be high on my list of changes I would make to cards if I could.

I did that for my home games a couple years ago:



Did the same for the Roman Archers:



They're the only official Valhallascape cards I've ever modified, because it seems to me that the Ashigaru language is what the original designers would've gone with earlier if they had thought of it, much like how Ghost Walk + Disengage became Phantom Walk.

(Another possibility is that they kept the original language simpler to cater to younger kids and went with the Ashigaru language later as they realized how many fans were adult players.)

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

No dragons, no soulborgs, no big heroes? Then Morsbane is quite useless and drafting him was plain stupid.
If Morsbane goes toe to toewith Kaemon, maybe he will hit the negation, but he will certainly be killed.
100 points sacrified in order to negate a 120 points hero? Not worth it.

You didn't talk about Sonya at all in your OP.
Kaemon vs Cyprien alone is 50/50 (proof) and Cyprien costs 30 points more than Kaemon, so no Cyprien is not a threat at all for Kaemon.

Cyprien+Sonya is OK, but unless you roll very high chilling early on, you'll lose a lot of lives, so it's kinda worth it for Kaemon because the Cyprien+Sonya combo is usually the core of the army.
I'd say it's a fair machup but not a hardcounter.

This kind of pargraphs are hilarious for us because they show that you don't know some basics of the game.
Of course you don't run Kaemon into Zombies, except in some rare situations you always use the maximum range possible with your ranged units so melee units can't catch you.
So here you stay at 4 hexes of 2 zombies, quick release, I don't think many zombies can catch Keamon next turn, especially if the zombies who were leading the charge were killed by QR last turn, as long as Zombies can't use their special attack (which is incredibly easy to avoid with a ranged hero if you are not stupid) the machup is cool for Kaemon.

But the problem is, even if you ask people for comments, you're not open for debate at all, you refuse everything which say that you're wrong, and never reconsider your opinion.

Look you didn't say a thing for Grimnak (so I guess you agree?) but you didn't modify OP.

That's why we all ask you to change the title by "Owlman's Kaemon strategy guide" because it's made of your opinion and your opinion only.

Ok, #1) let me put this a way your feeble and rude mind can understand: STOP acting condescending toward other posters, particular me. You act like you know for a fact how certain match ups will end, when in reality, you don't. It's our opinions here. Sometimes they'll be right, sometimes wrong. End of story.

I know I didn't mention Sonya in the review. Big deal. I was trying to make a point that Cyprien/Sonya have a MAJOR advantage over Awa. Cyprien will most likely win most match ups, simply because he has good defense and he has more life, Chilling Touch, etc... i.e. he can take multiple hits from Awa. For an "experienced player", you ought to know that. I wasn't saying he will ALWAYS win them. Sometimes he won't, but it's best to try and avoid Cyprien if you want Awa to survive, in most cases.

And #2) about Morsbane, um, what if some drafts Morsbane for, y'know, Morsbane? *CROWD GASPS*

Like Megasilver stated earlier, "It's not always a competition."

#3) If you want Awa to get close enough to a ton of zombies to use his special, (Read: 3 squads or more) be my guest. You'll excuse me if I don't follow that advice.

And #4, pot, meet the kettle. You are actually talking down to ME not knowing the basics of the game? Read the frickin' Strategy Articles then. Many of them give horrible advice and tips on certain figures.

Y'know, I was trying to have a decent conversation with you earlier, but then you just had to go all Daddy Scaper on me, didn't ya? Perhaps you ought to evaluate the way you post. Posting politely may go a long way.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by TREX

Freaking hilarious, I love it. Keep this stuff coming.

More Zombie love, I always say.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Oh, Owlman.

Don't argue. Take this stuff with a grain of salt (hoping I'm using this expression right) and smile back and say thanks. You're making yourself look very bad by keeping these conversations going, especially when most people agree against you. Don't let this turn into your Isamu Strategy Thread. Please?

[Dysole]

Heroscape Matchup Calculator gives Awa about 51% odds to win in a straight fight with Cyp. If Cyp has Sonya backup, Cyp wins about 61% of the time. Sounds decently even to me. Of course when you factor in cost, Awa seems like the better deal.

~Dysole, noting that if Owlman wants a strategy review to be taken seriously then he shouldn't be using phrases like "playing for fun" or "not everything is competitive". While these may be true, things of the strategy ilk tend to be about maximizing win chances

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Owlman

Read the frickin' Strategy Articles then. Many of them give horrible advice and tips on certain figures.

I would like your single best example of this. You have made exactly two responses to existing articles:

The Einar Imperium. Your critique of the article was not so much a critique of the article as it was a critique of the cost of The Einar Imperium.

Cyprien. Your critique of the article focused almost entirely on an optional strategy and a quibble over the ranking. Hardly at the level of "horrible advice and tips". Though, if you want to claim Kamikaze Cyprien as your best example I will be happy to respond with some personal experiences with that "horrible advice and tip" (hint: I've lost an entire game to a Kamikaze Cyprien).

I would have imagined that you chose to critique the articles you felt were the most egregious in their serving of "horrible advice and tips", but apparently you did not. And so, I would ask for a single example. Give me one thing that you feel epitomizes the "horrible advice and tips" in the existing articles.

~Aldin, curiosly

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince

Oh, Owlman.

Don't argue. Take this stuff with a grain of salt (hoping I'm using this expression right) and smile back and say thanks. You're making yourself look very bad by keeping these conversations going, especially when most people agree against you. Don't let this turn into your Isamu Strategy Thread. Please?

I don't mind taking GOOD posts with a grain of salt. But posts that are written as "Pfft, you have NO idea what you're talking about, EVERYBODY knows THIS is the correct way play blah blah blah"...

Well, I don't like that. Nobody does. Ergo, I will respond in kind, and eviscerate those posts. (Enter Daddy Scaper and Foudzing.)

I will not be talked down to, online or in person. I will be talked to (and with) in a friendly manner. I'm always up for a good discussion.

Posting like "Y'know, I think you're wrong, because blah blah blah" is great. I've read several posts like that, and it's perfectly fine to disagree. If he thinks my review is that bad, he can write his own.

You, for example, had some good posts in the other thread, which disagreed with me, and offered advice in a friendly manner, for the most part, as did dok and brandonwilker. Kudos to them/you.

[dok]

I appreciate that you appreciate my feedback Owlman, but I don't believe I've given you any w.r.t. this latest effort of yours. I am interested in the answer to the question that was asked earlier: have you played games with KA?

Dad_Scaper has been nothing but accommodating and constructive with you. If you can't see that, then the fault does not lie with Dad_Scaper. He also gave you an outstanding suggestion: rather than try to write up these strategy review clones, write up some battle reports and put them in the appropriate forum.

Foudzing has, indeed, been abrasive, and has a tendency to state opinion as fact. That's how he rolls. But he is an excellent player who has proven that repeatedly, and his insights about the game should be taken seriously.

To be fair, there are some bad nuggets of advice floating around in the history of the USRs. They are mostly solid, however. Putting down the USRs is neither a constructive forum activity, nor is it a good excuse to write flawed reviews of your own. If you really want to write reviews, I would suggest going through the path that is set out for that: write a draft, PM it to Taeblewalker, and see if it gets accepted.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Aldin

I would like your single best example of this. You have made exactly two responses to existing articles:

The Einar Imperium. Your critique of the article was not so much a critique of the article as it was a critique of the cost of The Einar Imperium.

Cyprien. Your critique of the article focused almost entirely on an optional strategy and a quibble over the ranking. Hardly at the level of "horrible advice and tips". Though, if you want to claim Kamikaze Cyprien as your best example I will be happy to respond with some personal experiences with that "horrible advice and tip" (hint: I've lost an entire game to a Kamikaze Cyprien).

I would have imagined that you chose to critique the articles you felt were the most egregious in their serving of "horrible advice and tips", but apparently you did not. And so, I would ask for a single example. Give me one thing that you feel epitomizes the "horrible advice and tips" in the existing articles.

~Aldin, curiosly

Sure thing.

Firstly, the Einar Imperium's cost is exactly why (for 500 competitive) they are NOT good for an artilce based solely on winning. They are over priced, and I gave an example: It's almost a given you ought to use Raelin or at least Kiova with the Imperium, for them to survive more than 3 rounds. So 140 x2 + Raelin (80) or Kiova (90) = 370/360. Meaning you have 140-130 points left for support. I ask, is that really a good strategy for 500 competitive? There are soooo many ranged death squads, I'd say no. Raelin and a bunch of Microcorps, Krav, Q9, etc...Would most likely obliterate that team.

The article should not have focused on Kiova for support, but on Raelin. She's cheaper than Kiova anyways, and she grants the Imperium a 3 + 5 (+1 w/Height) = 6 defense. Much better than 3 (ok, maybe 4 w/height) allowing a re-roll.

Also, how do you save over half of your force for a "surgical strike" mid game?? I just don't see how that's possible in 500 competitive.

Further, the only units w/range listed as units to avoid was Braxas and Q9. No mention of 4th Mass, Krav, etc...? A single squad of 4th Mass will murder a squad of Einar Imperium. So that baffled me.

In short, both primary strategies outlined in the article are bad idea's for 500 competitive, mainly because of the cost of the Imperium. If they had been 100-110ish, I think the article writer would have a point.

Now to Cyprien:

If you want to get into why you've had entire teams murdered by kamikaze Cyprien, I'll counter with MY horrible choice of flinging Cyprien out there, by himself. One game I charged out into the ranks, and took out a few squad figures. (Missed a CT on a major Hero, I forget which.) Next round, opponent wins initiative, activates one of his Heroes, and rolls 5-6 Skulls...? I then roll: Zero shields. Boom. Dead.

I lost my top piece because I got greedy, and tried to eat everybody. Cyprien (IMO) is better used as a precision instrument, not a "take on the whole world" kinda Hero. Or better yet, save the vampire for last. A full health Cyprien is EASILY a match for severely wounded Heroes, and Squad stragglers. (Except Soulborgs, of course.)

Over all, the Cyprien article was better than the Imperium article, but each had multiple issues in them.

(Note: This suggestion was meant for 500 competitive. Not casual laid back encounters.)

Hatamoto Taro article: In the end, it lists the Samurai as the only units to avoid. (And even then, not really, it says.) Um...? That's it?? What about heavy ranged squads, dragons, etc...?

Negoksa: One of the primary strategies suggested is glyph grabber...Is it just me, or is that not particularly the best strategy to use up one fifth of your army on...? Negoksa is much better served as a wall, than glyph grabber, to me. Leave that to cheaper units, such as rats and marro warriors. ( Or Isamu. )

Sir Denrick: He shouldn't just avoid Reavers/Blastatrons, he should avoid ALL common swarm squads. (I.e. Zombies, Heavy Gruts, 4th Mass, etc...)

Venoc Vipers: Let's be honest, the one purpose of Venocs is to attack, attack, attack. (Unless you get lucky and nab a Defense glyph.) They're 40 points, so it's wiser to focus more on throwing yourself at the enemy, hoping to kill something, than worrying about other units, in general. With 0 defense, the won't last long against anybody.


In short there is no single example. I've outlined above multiple ones that stick out to me. I'm not gonna go through them all day to find more specific ones.

Does that answer your question?

[Ninja Status]

Owlman,

We all respect each other in this community, but when someone starts an unneeded argument (like you did in the OP when people were giving suggestions) people tend to respect that person less.

A few wise members of this website once told me that taking negative feed-back through public comments, rep, or PMs is still constructive, it's a form of someone telling you directly what you could do better and how you could improve in this community. I'd like to see you become better. Being talked down to never feels good, but telling somebody to improve what they're doing instead of giving them the "okay" only makes their effort improve as well as the final result.

In a nutshell, all feedback on this site is constructive, negative or positive, and they're all meant to help. I hope you understand that.