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  #7009  
Old October 7th, 2020, 08:32 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

to review Abe no Seimei
to review Kincho
to review Ibaraki-doji

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #7010  
Old October 7th, 2020, 04:42 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

, , , and away

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  #7011  
Old October 11th, 2020, 10:28 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I struggled with my my own bias against non-western fantasy. My instinct told me this faction was too weird. Of course this is foolish as if the shoe was on the other foot Cyclops, Unicorns and Trolls with their distinct attributes such as healing or elven affinity might seem equally odd to those steeped in eastern traditions.

The group does not seem over designed - something critical to a faction of heroes.

I vote up an all 3.


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  #7012  
Old October 12th, 2020, 12:29 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Abe no Seimei (primary), Kincho (secondary), and Ibaraki-doji (secondary) have received 4 Yea votes to review (Scytale, capsocrates, superfrog, and wriggz)and move forward in the process.
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  #7013  
Old October 12th, 2020, 04:58 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Shadow Wraith and Shadow Stalker have passed United Fanscape Review and move forward in the process. There has been a slight change (the Shadow Wraith's Overshadow has been renamed to Deepened Shadows) due to Inner Sanctum discussion.
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  #7014  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 05:26 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Rujin by @Sir Heroscape

Rujin is back, looking quite different than his prior incarnation.

Balance

The most important comparisons for Rujin are Pel and Uzog, also Savages who work alongside the Durgeth Ravagers. Of the two, Pel is the most similar, so I'll concentrate on that comparison. On non-swamp, Rujin is pretty terrible in stat comparison, but terrain-specific figures are priced for their terrain. Swamp maps tend to be mostly swamp and swamp water, which means Rujin is usually Attack 6. Additionally, the bulk of units don't have special attacks, which means Rujin usually has Defense 3. Essentially you can think of the Troll as a 6/3 on swamp, with some weaknesses that hurt those stats. That makes him pretty much the same as Pel stat-wise, except some more life for 20 points more.

There is also the consideration of value to the Durgeth Ravagers as well as the value of Devour. Pel is terrible as a defender for the fragile Durgeth due to Heavy Axe. Rujin, on the other hand, can not only lock figures down, but can reposition better to gain defensive advantage or lock down additional units, and has a self-heal that further improves his tank role. So while they may have similar stats, they have different uses. Overall, I'd say the price is reasonable.

Theme

We've seen D&D and Feylund Trolls; now here's a Valhallan one. Devour gives Rujin a sufficiently troll-like feel that fits the toothy miniature, and the mini looks very much at home on a Heroscape swamp map. I also feel that Devour's once-per-round restriction is a clever way of addressing the concerns of the previous version of Rujin being nigh unbeatable in some situations.

Creativity

The powers are all easy to understand and are useful to the design (assuming the concept of the design is a terrain-specific unit). Devour is a clever way to keep his toughness in check; it's a nice boost, but not nearly fast enough to give him a big edge in endgame. Thick Skin is a little weird to me. The theme works, but it's odd to give him +1 Defense against most attacks. It plays more like a negative power that gives him -1 Defense against special attacks. But that doesn't hold the theme nearly as well, so I'm ok with it.

Playability

As with many terrain-specific units, how playable the unit is depends on whether or not its on its own terrain. Outside of Durgeth Ravager builds, the Valhallan Troll isn't very good outside of swamp. The sizable Life/Defense combo (assuming he's not facing a lot of special attacks) is nice, and healing helps, but a single melee attack of 4 is terrible compared to the 120pt heavyweights. Useful as a blocker, perhaps, but doesn't hold a candle to three sets of Deathreavers. On swamp maps his combat potential is solid (though not overwhelming), which helps his survivibility as well by both ensuring early heals and taking out figures that would otherwise counterattack. He's perhaps not as great as Kaemon Awa or the Fen Hydra, but a force to be reckoned with.

Rujin's value is more stable alongside Durgeth Ravagers. In that army, his biggest contribution is that of a defender, tying enemy figures down and keeping them from going after the squishy Ravagers, something he is able to do in or out of swamp. He does this better than Uzog with the big Durgeth's lower life, no healing, and fascination with making trophies instead of moving into a better position, but Rujin lacks the potent offensive boost that Uzog provides. Both together provide quite a bit of frontline trouble for opposing armies.

On swamp, of course, the Troll is even more potent with his improved killing ability (and thus more consistent healing as well). He's like a Pel the Hill Giant that isn't nigh useless as a defender (though costs more). In swamp he's a bit of a terror to an opponent, who has to try to decide whether to risk taking on his 6 Attack with Heroes or letting him heal up by munching on squaddies.

Not that he isn't without his weaknesses. Special attacks are annoying, and his healing can't keep up with sustained attacks. Even on swamp, there are usually non-swamp spots on the map that enemies can camp on, often including height.

Summary

Rujin is pretty similar to the other Durgeth Ravager bonding options Pel and Uzog, but plays differently. On swamp he's usually better than Pel, but does come with extra cost. Outside of swamp he's still a solid addition, due to usually being a better defender than Pel or Uzog. If nothing else, Rujin feels like a Valhallan Troll. He has some trollish-ness in his regeneration, and feels at home in a Valhallan swamp alongside Durgeth.

I vote Yea to induct Rujin into the SoV.

Last edited by Scytale; October 26th, 2020 at 11:08 AM.
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  #7015  
Old October 25th, 2020, 05:38 PM
GUILD_WARRIOR GUILD_WARRIOR is offline
 
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
So...just cause I'm getting close to finalizing Rujin...I went and check availability on his mini. After a quick search on a few of the main miniature suppliers there's really only ~20 of or so (including eBay). That said, Paizo does still have it available, though we know their supply is somewhat suspect.

When I first made my submission 2yrs ago for Rujin there were 81 minis in the market (not counting ebay or Paizo). Over the course of the playtesting of him, you'll remember he had 3upvotes and it seemed would be accepted (I think it was the first submission to get 3 upvotes and NOT get accepted), but then got turned down. My assumption is that during that time, a lot of active members figured the design would be "official" and went ahead and bought the mini in anticiption of it being accepted. That said, there's no way to confirm that.
.
So my question is...how do we handle this situation? Am I good to submit with the assumption that the mini was collected by most of those already interested anyway and paizo has the mini available still but is that enough? Is assuming people already bought it enough? Or 1) do I have to get a different mini (which could be bad for those who already bought the mini) OR 2) Just wait till availablity some how gets up in the other sources outside of Paizo?

Just a thought on a proxie for this figure. It has several of the same features you stated, It is on a large base, has huge teeth, a pot belly, appears to be comparable in size, several in stock at Paizo, along with coming in at a lower price point. https://paizo.com/products/btpy91lq?Pathfinder-Battles-Skull-Shackles-Sea-Troll .

Up to you guys but, I think his watery appearance plays nicely into the swamp theme. Still not sure how I feel about his lower Jaw. I certainly wouldn't have issue with it as an unofficial proxie. Let me know what you think.
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  #7016  
Old October 29th, 2020, 05:02 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Clayton Pierce by Discord group

Clayton's back to pull together a new posse and charge into Valhalla. Many of the comments I wrote in my prior review, in which I felt very favorably for the design except the statline which I felt deviated too far from other Lawmen.

Balance

Theoryscaping Clayton now is no easier than it was before. His cost is tied mostly to his leadership abilities, which aren't very similar to other such powers. Also, the power level of these sorts of designs varies depending on the strength of the other units in the faction. In my testing the price is reasonable at least.

Theme

In my last review I spoke of how I liked that Sheriff's Posse forced the Lawmen to stay near Mr. Pierce. That restriction has been lifted, and the Lawmen are able to move around independently. In play that didn't actually feel odd thematically, as the Shootout restrictions keep Clayton the active leader he should be. Whether it was Lawmen scattering to gain key positions or Lawmen rushing up from the back, Poss still had an old west posse feel. Shootout has the same excellent thematic "western gunfight" feel as before.

Last time I voted against Clayton primarily because his statline deviated quite a bit from other Lawmen. There is still deviation here, a higher Attack, and I'm perfectly fine with that. He stands out a bit as a better shot that most, which is a good feel for him while still feeling like a Lawman.

Creativity

This is the simplest, most solid version of Clayton Pierce to poke his head into the SoV thread, and it is all the better for it. The fat has been trimmed and the Sheriff plays as he should with only what is needed. While the powers are essentially the same as providing bonus turns for three other Lawmen, it plays differently than other such powers, making the Lawmen faction unique, and in a very thematic way.

Playability

I rather liked how Clayton Pierce played last time I tested him, so I'll focus on the changes.

The simplification of Posse actually feels much the same, with some of need for stranger tactics smoothed over, like using Clayton as a relay point for Lawmen left in the starting zone. The fact that Shootout requires the figures to stay near Clayton keeps the pack together for the most part, so even without the prior restrictions they mostly move as a group. This version plays mostly the same, with more utility to grab glyphs or move up Lawmen left behind.

Shootout has a drastic change in that it only works on Clayton's turn, not any Lawmen's turn. I actually really like how that change affected gameplay. First, since the Sheriff himself now has to be one of the activated Lawmen, it encourages Clayton to be close enough to get a shot off himself (and having stronger Attack helps too). Second, predicting what order marker is best to give Clayton is a great part of their play. You usually don't want to give Clayton many order markers, due to only getting a single attack himself, so you want Shootout at the best time. Often that isn't the first order marker, as you can get more out of Shootout after first taking turns with other Lawmen to get them into position (Posse often gets them close, but not into optimal positions). But the last order marker may be too risky, as Lawmen can drop quickly. It makes for some great decision-making.

Speaking of which, I was almost surprised to see how this design leads to naturally spreading order markers, which in my opinion is a positive aspect of the faction concept. Positioning is important for the group, and Posse only gets them halfway much of the time. Additionally, the Lawmen are too squishy to want to gamble all your order markers on one. It certainly helps that each of the group brings something to the posse (even cheap Guilty!), with none of them standing out as a clearly better turn than the others.

How strong are they? It's easy to try to think of the faction as getting three extra turns per round (split between movements and attacks), but that isn't quite right. Before-round movements are fantastic, as positioning is often a race. Having all the extra attacks at once is also especially good, as the sudden barrage of attacks can wreak havoc on enemy formations. This all comes at a price, though, as one has to predict when to activate Clayton for Shootout, while the Lawmen's normal offensive output is subpar and their defenses aren't very good. Raelin helps a lot, and newly-released Louis "Mad Dog" Malone fills out the group well as a rough-and-tumble way to hold off melee armies. Overall, more "fun" than "competitive," but that could change with future Lawmen.

Summary

This version of Clayton Pierce is the best version of Clayton Pierce. He maintains all the thematic and gameplay strengths that won me over the first time while trimming off the rougher bits that weighed it down. This version also addressed my prior concern about the statline. Despite my earlier misgivings, I'd now like to see a sheriff in Valhalla, and I want to see Clayton Pierce to take that position.

I vote Yea to induct Clayton Pierce into the SoV.
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  #7017  
Old October 29th, 2020, 11:37 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I would like to resubmit my Dwarven designs.

Submission 1:
Great Axes of Ironstone

Notable changes:
• Adrenaline Burst reworked. Previously it was a constant passive mobility boost as long as you were near an engaged ally. It is now a choice between mobility and attack power.
• Price increased to 90 points. Previously the Axes were slow to get out of the startzone, and easy to kite with range, especially if it could stay unengaged. It is now easier to reposition for a variety of situations, and significantly easier to get out of the startzone.

Submission 2: Dalmar Stonewall

Notable changes:
• Protector of Ironstone now affects all friendly Dwarves. Previously it affected all friendly common figures, which was odd, because that meant that none of the Unique Dwarf designs were affected. Dalmar now protects his fellow kin, and no one else.

Previous submission here
Original submission here

I hope you all enjoy these Dwarves as much as I do, if not more.

Last edited by Leaf_It; November 25th, 2020 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Changed the name of "Adrenaline Burst" to "Strategic Charge". Added "other" to Protector of Ironstone.
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  #7018  
Old November 2nd, 2020, 06:40 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I've been super excited for the dwarf resubmission. I did a game or two with the Great Axes when they were being reconsidered and am looking forward to doing more. Dalmar seems like a cool defender-type hero to use with the dwarves. I do worry about army building a little bit with him being the same point cost as Darrak (sub-incredible when one figure just never gets played because of an obvious better choice at the same point value, which would be unfortunate either way here) and would have preferred him either a bit higher or lower than Darrak, but I'm willing to put it under closer scrutiny in playtesting.

to Great Axes of Ironstone
to Dalmar Stonewall
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  #7019  
Old November 3rd, 2020, 10:13 AM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'm very happy with the changes to Dalmar, except the wording is unclear. Or at least, I don't think it does quite what you think it does. Is Protector of Ironstone supposed to protect Dalmar too? Because it does. If you don't intend it to, you need an "other" in there.

As for the Great Axes, I really like the changes to Adrenaline Burst, though I no longer like the name. "Adrenaline Burst," to me, doesn't suggest a weaker attack. The power is now a "Rush to Battle" or "Fast Over Short Distances" or something. Otherwise I'd vote to review, but I have severe reservations about the power level of Seasoned Veterans. In my last review I described that power as "borderline broken," and I suspect I can find broken builds. Stat boost are easy to come by.
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  #7020  
Old November 3rd, 2020, 06:04 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I'm very happy with the changes to Dalmar, except the wording is unclear. Or at least, I don't think it does quite what you think it does. Is Protector of Ironstone supposed to protect Dalmar too? Because it does. If you don't intend it to, you need an "other" in there.
Ah, Good catch. Yeah, he's not supposed to affect himself. Should I upload a new card image with that change?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale
As for the Great Axes, I really like the changes to Adrenaline Burst, though I no longer like the name. "Adrenaline Burst," to me, doesn't suggest a weaker attack. The power is now a "Rush to Battle" or "Fast Over Short Distances" or something.
Hmm... Well, I'm open to naming suggestions. At one point I think I had Adrenaline Rush named "Strategic Charge", Would that name work for you? Would that name work for the other judges?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale
Otherwise I'd vote to review, but I have severe reservations about the power level of Seasoned Veterans. In my last review I described that power as "borderline broken," and I suspect I can find broken builds. Stat boost are easy to come by.
I'd also like to point out that the change to Adrenaline Burst is actually a nerf to Seasoned Veterans. Before they could use their boosted move without their lowering stats, and now they can't. Now those changes also made positioning them in various situations easier, but I did boost their price for that already, and I feel that they are balanced where they are.
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