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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


View Poll Results: Which Master Set do you like the best?
Rise of the Valkyrie (1st one) 564 89.52%
Swarm of the Marro (2nd one) 66 10.48%
Voters: 630. You may not vote on this poll

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  #49  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:01 AM
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I like commons in the masterset (swarm of the marro), but I like the variety of terrain like in (ROTV).

A mix of both would be great.
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  #50  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:05 AM
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There should be a vote of some sort asking about specific elements people want to see in the new master set. example - common squads, unique squads, mix of both, trees, ruins, types of terrain, dice or no dice, etc..

That should give us a clear idea of what is needed most in a master set.

If this has been already, sorry.
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  #51  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherman Davies
You're right; it can't have the variety of RotV, but it can offer more than SotM. Your hypothetical set listed above has variety and mulitple commons, so it can be done.
I'd sooner want more variety than more of the same figures. A new player won't care if he only has one set of an overpriced common figure, but he will notice if he has 6 or 12 identical figures. Something like this would have more of a Wow factor:

Commons
Fyorlag Spiders (3)
Kyrie of the Moon (3) [6]
Spitting Cobras (3) [9]
Melee, Alphadon-bonding Gorillinators (3) [12]
Common Alphadon hero (1) [13]
Ronin (3) [16]
Some Historic unit. (4) [20]Tasteful WWI Germans? Amer. Revolutionary war Hessians? Ancient Egyptians? Lots of options here!
Uniques
Sujoah
Zetacron
Wo-Sa-Ga
Beldun, or some other Kyrie hero
Zelrig too, because every hodgepodge MS needs a big red dragon.

I'd buy a second set of that.

Edit: I think it's a lot easier to convince yourself to buy a second set when there's more than one thing that you want in it. For me, the only thing I wanted out of a 2nd SotM was the two squads of stingers. Green terrain? Meh. 5 Uniques I already have? Meh. Nagrubs and Drudge? Double meh. But if I could point to 3 or 4 cool new squads in a master set that I liked (and if a friend liked a different 3 or 4), and there were new LoS blockers, etc, I could see more reason to buy a 2nd or 3rd set.

I'm probably in the minority here on this site, but I have NEVER bought a second of the same terrain expansion. I have 1 RotV, 1 Tundra, 1 Forest, 2 SotM, and 2 FotA. I won my second FotA and SotM in tournaments, and I have yet to open them. I don't like the clutter. I like new interesting figures. I'll probably get a second or third Forest set, and a second RotV, TT, and even 2 VW's, but I never intend to have a Dr. Weirdscaper-esque collection. I play small maps. New figures and LoS blockers are what I want to see.

djsmith is right though. Later on, some sort of official voting threads would be good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #52  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherman Davies
You're right; it can't have the variety of RotV, but it can offer more than SotM. Your hypothetical set listed above has variety and mulitple commons, so it can be done.
I'd sooner want more variety than more of the same figures. A new player won't care if he only has one set of an overpriced common figure, but he will notice if he has 6 or 12 identical figures. Something like this would have more of a Wow factor:

Commons
Fyorlag Spiders (3)
Kyrie of the Moon (3) [6]
Spitting Cobras (3) [9]
Melee, Alphadon-bonding Gorillinators (3) [12]
Common Alphadon hero (1) [13]
Ronin (3) [16]
Some Historic unit. (4) [20]Tasteful WWI Germans? Amer. Revolutionary war Hessians? Ancient Egyptians? Lots of options here!
Uniques
Sujoah
Zetacron
Wo-Sa-Ga
Beldun, or some other Kyrie hero
Zelrig too, because every hodgepodge MS needs a big red dragon.

I'd buy a second set of that.

djsmith is right though. Later on, some sort of official voting threads would be good.
That sounds good, there...
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  #53  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:47 AM
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To directly answer your question a good master set should be what RotV was (everyone agrees, check the poll). A good MS is a ready to play, fully functional, and well rounded single box that can be a stand alone product for the most casual of players. I was lucky enough to become involved in this game during the RotV. If I walked into a store now and saw only Marvel or SotM I probably would not bite. You already have a perfect Master Set. I would say that almost every die hard, super passionate, "plasticrack" addict here cut there teeth on it. There are posts and posts that all say the same thing, good assortment of figs and terrain, lots of scenarios, etc., etc.

Lets be honest, Swarm was a giant expansion pack.

I understand the inclusion of the commons in Swarm. It allowed diehards the ability to use the figs they get with multiple purchases. It was a great nod to the fans, but it was to compensate for a different issue. The real issue was really that people wanted more terrain and were buying multiple RotV for that reason. Sell terrain packs (like you are discussing). Put them in plain white boxes and sell them on the website and at hobby stores. You wouldn't be able to make enough of the RttF trees. You don't need a new MS, you need efficient ways for people, that have the nearly perfect RotV, to ramp up their involvement and expand their experience.

*That's my application for a job by the way!!
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  #54  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:10 AM
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Variety. That's all I can say.

RotV: 73 votes
SotM: 6 votes

I wonder which people like better?

Grinnell College '16
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  #55  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:16 AM
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First post updated with a summary of thoughts
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  #56  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamjuven
First post updated with a summary of thoughts
Looks good. Here are some short, silly bullet points of my own, that are undoubtedly biased. Basically, I feel that terrain and figures should be separated where possible.

1. No one buys Road to the Forgotten Forest for the Dumutef Guard.
2. People bought multiple copies of RotV for the terrain value alone, despite getting multiples of the uniques.
3. SotM doesn't have quite the terrain appeal of RotV for repeat purchases, nor does it have the same variety of units. If someone doesn't like Marro or the color green, they won't want a second copy at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #57  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:28 AM
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The new summary nailed it on the head.

One addition I would like to point out. (only because I want them so bad) is the many posts regarding the jungle theme idea for the new master set. Not everyone wants a lot of trees, but a ton of us do, and this may be the way to accomplish that.
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  #58  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:37 AM
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I didn't vote for either, because I liked them both from my perspective.

RotV is a great introduction set. Ready to play out of the box with lots of variety. So when I got into the game this was a great set to have.

I had everything that was released when Swarm was released. So the Swarm Master Set was a great Master Set for my collection at that time.

BUT ... I can see the Swarm Master Set being a problem in attracting new players because it lacks the variety of RotV. It replaces variety (gameplay experience) with pizaz (nice to look at).

Your Master Set is your flagship product. You need the variety of characters of RotV and the bells and whistles of Swarm. You may want to include items like the Hive that might not go well with any other type of expansion.

Here is the Master Set I would design which includes terrain elements to offer hardcore gamers incentive to purchase multiple MS:

Desert Oasis Master Set

Terrain:
Majority: Sand (Single color hex, doesn't require paint application
Secondary: Rock
Minor: A few grass and swamp
Nonstakable: Equal amounts water and Quicksand

Line of Sight blockers:
Two Sand dunes
Four Oasis Trees/shrubs (they can double as Jungle/same rules)

Figures to include:
Mounted Arabian Knights squad (Einar)
Mummy hero (Utgar or Vydar)
Spitting Cobra Vipers squad (ranged Ullar)
Cleopatra hero (Einar)
King Tut (Einar)
Desert Worm large hero w/ burrow ie. sand teleport ability (Jandar?)
Croc humanoid squad (Aquilla)
Ranged Kyrie squad w/ African look (Ullar)
Genie large hero (Einar)

Story
A Wellspring has been found deep in the desert at an Oasis which becomes a new battleground for the generals in Valhaulla

DUND is underestimated and under-rated.
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  #59  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:45 AM
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Requirements of a good master set:

~30 figures, in enough units to satisfy a 4-way, 300 point (minimum) game, with a few units left over.

In this group of units, synergy must be possible in various groups. Also, give up to two units an ability that must be used with a figure not in the set (like Grimnak's Orc Warrior Enhancement, to encourage buying more).

Of these units at least 2 should be huge, whether dragons or otherwise, to increase the 'awe' factor. There's just something about how Mimring and Grimnak look compared to the others that makes them appear awesome.

Enough hexes to make a map to sufficiently house the above units, with enough terrain to allow several hills and an possibly a small overhang/cave if wanted. A minimum of 4-24 hex pieces. Sparkly water is a MUST!

In terms of different terrain: when dividing the various types of terrain, be sure that there is enough of each to make a signifact area of it that a unit with terrain-based powers would be able to get the most of it.

Terrain obstacles of some kind or another all also a must. Preferably natural-looking.

New glyphs are fun. We still have a few letters left. I'm looking forward to them!

That's what I think makes a good MS.

Nukatha is Knight of Weston...
in THE MYCELOID MANOR
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  #60  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:45 AM
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Looks pretty sweet to me riggler. I'd buy a bunch. Though I want some ziggurats to be a building in the master set. Or perhaps groups of bases that can be stacked to make a ziggurat
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