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  #1  
Old June 28th, 2006, 07:18 PM
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Proposed program: Heroscape Point Calculator

So, I was playing around with HCC a bit today, and wishing I could contribute something, but knowing my graphics skill suck (a lot). So I was wondering if I could contribute something else.

I notice that HCC has an "automatically calculate point cost" feature. Which I assume (knowing the dangers therein) is based on the old spreadsheet from the .net days, the only real "copy" of which I could find was over on BGG. (And BTW, if there's a newer copy than that somewhere, please point me at it.) But of course that doesn't have any of the newest special powers and costs for them, etc.

So I was thinking ... what if I could hack together just a simple point calculator app? I could put it up on the web (I could host it, or someone else could volunteer to) and I would try to keep it updated with the latest special powers and whatnot (based on discussions on appropriate costs in the fora here, of course). And then maybe at some point (probably not right away, but eventually) it could interface somehow or other with HCC, so you could use it either separately or in conjunction with that.

Ignoring my meandering prose, does the basic idea make sense? Would this be something useful? Would a zillion threads on exactly how many points Rod of Negation or Blood Hungry is worth annoy people? Let me know what you guys think.
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  #2  
Old June 28th, 2006, 08:01 PM
0rbital 0rbital is offline
 
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I just looked at the autopoint calculator code and it follows the spreadsheet that is on BGG.

If you want to extend it just become a developer for HCC and work on the calculator
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  #3  
Old June 28th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Regai Regai is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0rbital
I just looked at the autopoint calculator code and it follows the spreadsheet that is on BGG.

If you want to extend it just become a developer for HCC and work on the calculator
It's very close to the spreadsheet but does have some slight differences. The calculation for squads for instance.
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  #4  
Old June 29th, 2006, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0rbital
If you want to extend it just become a developer for HCC and work on the calculator
Well, that was my first thought exactly. But then I wondered if it might not be useful to be able to do point calcs separately from HCC. Like maybe there would be some folks who wanted just to do the point calculation but didn't need full-blown HCC.

I also wondered if we could avoid some of the copyright issues this way. E.g. I noticed that many of the special powers in HCC were reworded or renamed, presumably to avoid having to include Hasbro-copyrighted text. If it were in a web app, which is of course not being redistributed, we might not have these issues (IAE, I don't see it being an issue in other web apps such as Logrey's HS Collection Manager).

Yet another advantage might be that the two might not want to be tied to each other's release schedule. For instance, I could see the point calculator being updated more often, which would be relatively easy as a web app.

But those were just some thoughts. I could be convinced I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regai
It's very close to the spreadsheet but does have some slight differences. The calculation for squads for instance.
Oh yeah? That's interesting. Is there a another source for the calculations you used? Perhaps a thread from HQ or somesuch (not that I know whether we can get to those at this point ...)?
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  #5  
Old June 29th, 2006, 09:33 AM
Regai Regai is offline
 
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There were four sources I drew from. One was a thread on HQ, two spreadsheets (one on HQ and one from BGG), and a document that recounted a thread from .NET.

Even with all of that the points on a few official units was way off so I tweaked the numbers until my point calculator came within 10 points plus or minus.

On the copyright issue: I didn't intentionally rename/reword skills to avoid copyrights. I did rename/reword skills when the name/wording only made sense in context of a specific unit. I also took the units name out a put in a place holder tag <unit> so that the name of the custom you were working on would be auto inserted into the text.


A point calculator seperate from HCC would be useful for those people who do their own custom work in photoshop/paint shop/ etc. However, I would also love to have whatever algorithm you come up with available to merge with HCC.
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  #6  
Old June 29th, 2006, 11:22 AM
0rbital 0rbital is offline
 
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You could easily do it as a web app since it's just drop downs and calculations. The point calculator code in HCC would be easy to adjust to any new calculations that are needed.
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  #7  
Old June 29th, 2006, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regai
There were four sources I drew from. One was a thread on HQ, two spreadsheets (one on HQ and one from BGG), and a document that recounted a thread from .NET.
I don't suppose there's any chance you have any of that stuff still, eh? Or if any of it's still online, pointers to it? (Other than the BGG one--which is really a .net one--which I already found.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regai
Even with all of that the points on a few official units was way off so I tweaked the numbers until my point calculator came within 10 points plus or minus.
Yeah, I think I would really try hard to make the official units come out to the same point values. Just to avoid annoying questions from users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regai
On the copyright issue: I didn't intentionally rename/reword skills to avoid copyrights. I did rename/reword skills when the name/wording only made sense in context of a specific unit.
Oh, okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regai
I also took the units name out a put in a place holder tag <unit> so that the name of the custom you were working on would be auto inserted into the text.
Right, I noticed that. Good idea, I thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regai
A point calculator seperate from HCC would be useful for those people who do their own custom work in photoshop/paint shop/ etc. However, I would also love to have whatever algorithm you come up with available to merge with HCC.
Oh, absolutely. That would have to be done. What I was vaguely thinking was that there might be a file you could d/l and HCC could suck that in. Something along those lines. But then decisions like that are why I wanted to talk about it for a bit before just leaping in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbital
You could easily do it as a web app since it's just drop downs and calculations.
Right, my thoughts exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbital
The point calculator code in HCC would be easy to adjust to any new calculations that are needed.
Yeah, but wouldn't it be cooler if there was some sort of interface between the two? That way you (as HCC developers) wouldn't have to constantly change the code to keep current.
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  #8  
Old June 29th, 2006, 03:47 PM
Regai Regai is offline
 
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Unfortunately I do not have it here, perhaps at home, but I doubt that. I probably cleared it off the system when I needed space.
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  #9  
Old June 29th, 2006, 03:55 PM
K/H_Addict K/H_Addict is offline
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yes
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  #10  
Old June 29th, 2006, 03:57 PM
0rbital 0rbital is offline
 
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Glasswalker still has the full site doesn't he. You could try getting the info/files from him Xotli.

We could come up with a file format to store constants for calculating points and have both apps read them without much trouble.
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  #11  
Old June 29th, 2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regai
Unfortunately I do not have it here, perhaps at home, but I doubt that. I probably cleared it off the system when I needed space.
Sure, understood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbital
Glasswalker still has the full site doesn't he. You could try getting the info/files from him Xotli.
Yeah, I think some of the admins around here have the entire archive as well. Don't know how easy that is to search through tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbital
We could come up with a file format to store constants for calculating points and have both apps read them without much trouble.
Right, that's what I was thinking too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K/H_Addict
yes
Yes it would be useful or yes endless discussions on whether Deadly Strike should be 5 or 10 points would be annoying?

Assuming you meant the former, thanx for the vote (hmmm ... maybe I should have made this a poll ...).

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether I should just slap it up on my own site or if it should be hosted here, or maybe on HLD, or somesuch? Be much easier for me to work on it if I did it on my own site, but I'm sure this place has much better hosting than I do.
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  #12  
Old October 1st, 2006, 01:41 PM
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EyeOfSauron EyeOfSauron is offline
 
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This should definitely be done....hosting on your site to start out makes sense and then as it (presumably) grows and becomes more valuable it could always move to someplace else.

Having a centralized, "semi-official" points calculator would be very advantageous, but giving the community all the gory details (formulas, etc.) would be good too.

I have a selfish reason for wanting the details also, as I am working on a HeroScape RPG and having those formulas for character creation would be very helpful.

Let me know what I can do to help in this effort!




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