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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #85  
Old June 15th, 2021, 03:41 PM
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Got It

Okay I'm understanding your delineation better and that helps me follow where you're coming at.

~Dysole, still with no concrete ideas for any upcoming RtW events
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  #86  
Old June 15th, 2021, 10:02 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

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Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
I think you don't see short but good as much because most people know how to play those good armies so it tends to feel like less of an edge than when you're playing the weird mixes I or OEAO or IS have or one of the I'm good with this figure armies. There's also a couple examples that have been left out like Johnny Frisbee with Heavies x3 Tornak Ornak 2019 that made day 2, and some of the glad/blast builds feel that way.

~Dysole, informationally
True.

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Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
Wasn't the 2019 point total 410? Ornak Tornak Heavies x3 is 410 points. Unless your point is that Ornak and Tornak are bad figures that eat up your points, which is fair, but I think it's more of a Mediocre but Whole army. Different than the other Mediocre but Whole armies since Tornak and Ornak are the mediocre ones, not the bonding squad.

dok's 2019 Gladblast could definitely be classed as Short but Good though. Swarm Raelin and Kumiko just spend points there. Truly, many of these armies can be classed as other archetypes, but I'm trying to pick the most defining attribute for each army. If you're going to class playing suboptimal figures to spend points as Short but Good, a lot of RtW armies could fall in the category. There's a gradient of:

Actually playing light
Playing figures who truly waste points and do nothing (Matthias's 2018 Hato)
Figures who waste a lot of points but situationally can do something (Vegie 2019 X17 + Theracus)
------------------
Bad figures who you need to do some things but are under no impression that they'll be killing their points' worth (ISB3 2018 Agent Carr + Dund, dok 2019 SotM Raelin + Kumiko)
Playing mediocre figures who you think can probably carry about their points worth in an RtW meta, with support from some good options that help them (the entire Mediocre but Whole archetype)

To me, the short but good archetypes ends at the dotted line, and then it just becomes other RtW army making strategies, that often involve spending points suboptimally.
I think Iíd draw the line after the second bullet point (Matthias/Hatamoto). I see it as either just straight up playing short, or playing things that are clearly so bad and arenít the main part of your build, plus have pretty much no tie to your main core, and theyíre literally just to spend those points. X17 is bad but with Theracus thereís utility, and didnít that combo actually do you some good tactically in a few games? That to me just feels like youíre effectively utilizing bad figures (well theracus isnít terrible), which just feels like the RtW meta armies.

But like you said armies can dip into multiple archetypes. And it is true that the rest of your army was good units.
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  #87  
Old June 29th, 2021, 09:43 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

It's definitely debatable if my army really was playing short. X17 never really did have a great game though no. His best game was probably the quarterfinals against Major Q23, when I just plopped him on Valda with Theracus; he was very safe against Q23's Dwarves with his melee defense and secured the glyph for the Chasers the whole game. My opponents either tried to use X17 without much success or just left him in the startzone until the endgame. I had a few games where I left him in the startzone too.

I guess I just think Deathchasers are good, and they were by far the more meaningful part of the army. Anyway I guess I'm not sure what I'd class it as otherwise either; maybe Fast But Fragile?
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  #88  
Old July 1st, 2021, 04:00 AM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

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Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
It's definitely debatable if my army really was playing short. X17 never really did have a great game though no. His best game was probably the quarterfinals against Major Q23, when I just plopped him on Valda with Theracus; he was very safe against Q23's Dwarves with his melee defense and secured the glyph for the Chasers the whole game. My opponents either tried to use X17 without much success or just left him in the startzone until the endgame. I had a few games where I left him in the startzone too.

I guess I just think Deathchasers are good, and they were by far the more meaningful part of the army. Anyway I guess I'm not sure what I'd class it as otherwise either; maybe Fast But Fragile?
Gladblast?

Haha yeah youíre right itís not too obvious to categorize otherwise...Iíd probably go with Fast But Fragile myself. Itís also an army (DCís) that youíre definitely good with, so I could see it under Figures You Personally Are Very Good At. I guess it would feel more like Short But Good to me had you played 40pt. under or had a not-so-good filler for Theracusís spot. Theracus+X17 actually seems decent to me, it for sure makes it a lot easier to get X17 somewhere and that can help save your deathchasers from some attacks. Would you say Theracus+X17 was a big reason for your win against William? Iíd say the filler in this category really shouldnít ever do much, besides maybe getting super lucky in the end game or something.
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