Sir Denrick Mothballed?

[Snotwalker 8000]

So, now that Sir Gil has been on the scene for a while now, has Denrick been mothballed? When you can draft Gilbert into your army, why draft Denrick? They are practically identical in base stats, aside from Gilbert having 1 more life and 1 less attack die.

Gilbert

Jandar Dispatch = Awesome! ALWAYS useful. much needed for the knights.

Attack Aura 1 = solid. With movement enhancement to fellow Jandar squad figs, they should easily be able to get adjacent to Gil to attack enemy figs... Whereas without the dispatch movement enhancement, they (KoW) tend to be too slow to easily form an adjacent screen in front of the bonded hero. In short, VERY easy to implement this attack aura.

Denrick

Cowards Reward = never used! Most people are hesitant to pull away from an adjacent enemy fig anyway.... 1 more disengagement die doesn't greatly impact that decision.

Giant Killer = Good, but not consistently useable.

In short, both of Sir Gilbert's abilities can be used consistently and reliably in most games played. Sir Denrick hardly ever gets to utilize either of his specials.

I've always thought that Denrick was a solid figure, given his bonding compatibility... but with Gilbert available, I don't see Denrick hitting the field much anymore. Even against opponents with several dragons and other huge figs, I'd rather quickly bring up 4 supporting KoWs with Jandar's Dispatch to join in the attack, benefiting as well from Gil's Attack Aura 1, than have 1 attack 6 from Denrick.

Thoughts? For those with Gilbert, has Denrick been played since?

[netherspirit]

Was he ever really drafted that much before Gilbert Grape came along?

[ASmiles]

Dendrick never saw much play to begin with. I've used Finn and Thorgrim with the Knights more than I've used Dendick.

There's also the pure stats between the 2. Dendrick has an extra attack die and Gilbert has an extra life.

Gilbert's 105 cost makes him a little harder to fit into some armies.

But in most instances, Gilbert will be more effective.

If you are in a draft situation, you are often responding to the choices of your opponents (and possibly teammates) so the giant-killing power will definitely have it's time and place.

[spider_poison]

Yeah, I think Denrick's pretty much toast now. He was sometimes okay before, but I usually picked Denrick only if I also used Finn. Even then, you're investing at least 320 points in knights, and that's a bit much. With Gilbert, he costs enough to where it's hard to use Denrick. If you play on seeing lots of huge figs though, I could see Denrick still getting some use, but only if you're very certain there will be lots of huge figs.

[Eclipse]

I agree, Denrick has never really been all that good. Thogrim or Finn have served the Human Champion role better for fewer points since long before Denrick first walked onto the field. Denrick's problem is twofold:

1: Giant Killer is too rare a trait to be worth spending the points on. There are only 9 huge figures in the game total. The chance your opponent is fielding one is pretty slim in most cases.

2: Denrick still sucks at fighting most of these units -

- Braxas: I've seen him fall far too many times to Braxas breath attack. Most of the time it's just an afterthought when they've poisoned 2 of the Knights and have a third breath to use. Even then with Flying it's easy for her to get height and tear through Denrick's 4 Defense faster than he can tear through her 8 life.

- Brunak: One of his better matchups actually. A couple bad rolls and Brunak can go down pretty quickly. This is probably the one opponent Denrick can beat reliably, IMO.

- Charos: Denrick has neither the Attack to reliably get through Counterstrike nor the Defenses to survive Charos's attack. He can actually win this fight, but I've seen Charos come out on top more often than not.

- Grimnak: Denrick should win this, but a lucky Chomp roll will take that away from you pretty quickly.

- Jotun: Jotun's superior movement often gets him the first strike, which on a poor roll might be all it takes to deal with Denrick. This is again one of his better matchups though.

- Krug: This fight seems to go 50:50. Either Denrick gets in a couple quick wounds and then finishes off Krug in the next round with a big attack, or Krug gets wounded and rips open Denrick with that big can opener he carries around.

- Mimring: Mimring flutters around Denrick spewing flames until he goes down. The only time Denrick has ever beat him was with an assassin strike when my opponent wasn't paying attention. Nobody paying attention should let Mimring get in melee with Denrick.

- Nilfheim: This turns into a cross between the Mimring and Braxas fights. If the ground is uneven, it's easy for Nilf to rain ice shards down as he plays keep away. If there's less terrain, it's not too hard for Nilf to get in a good position and tear through Denrick with 7 attack.

- Su-Bak-Na: This can go well for Denrick. Su usually gets in a good shot though and Denrick isn't worth much after the battle.

I just don't see what value Denrick honestly has compared to the other Human Champions. He doesn't boost anyone around him, he's not that much stronger, and his one trick just doesn't work in practice. Honestly I've been toying with the idea of letting Giant Killer work on Large figures (or work with +1), but I hate houseruling things. Gilbert does make a mighty fine replacement at least

[monkeyfish]

Originally Posted by netherspirit

Was he ever really drafted that much before Gilbert Grape came along?

Not in my draft pools.

[Aldin]

Eclipse,

Good analysis on Denrick vs. Huge. I think he still has his place though. Remember that he's only 100 points, so even doing significant damage to most huges is worthwhile. I like him for three reasons:

1) Huges respect him. Sometimes simply having Denrick around can discourage some of the more aggressive anti-squad tactics
in which huges tend to engage. I had an orc archer army with Krug focus on Denrick and kill him... which left all the Knights alive to kill Krug and his supporting cast (I had Denrick and Gilbert). Had they focused on the Knights I might very well have run out of attacking power even if Denrick successfully took down Krug.

2) 4 attack is far more consistant than 3 attack. I've found that against most units two skulls is quite deadly. With an attack of 3 you will get 2 skulls half the time. With an attack of 4 it goes to almost 70%.

3) High life cowards. I personally will regularly disengage units with a lot of life if there is a good tactical opportunity. I figure a 50/50 chance of a single wound just isn't that bad. But cowards reward causes me to think twice about disengaging because the price is so much higher.

~Aldin

[Oprime]

I'll say this...

If I've commited to a squad with human champ bonding during the draft and my opponent drafts a second huge fig I tend to counter draft with Denrick.

Reason being, most of the huge figs have flight ie the dragons and more than likley on most maps they'll be on top of you and fighting before Jandars dispatch really come into play.

at that point in the game I want Denricks extra dice.

He's not great, but he has his place.

[Taelord]

I always play them both along with five ten sets of knights

[mogrebla]

Nice analysis, Eclipse. I agree with Aldin that Denrick can serve as a deterrent for huge figure mischief. He can also be dangerous even when you're watching out for him.

I recently played a game where the Airborne Elite dropped onto a castle wall on Turn 2. They began firing on my troops below, and things were getting ugly. I was not in a position to send my figures climbing up ladders. The only thing I could do was call in an airstrike: I sent Mimring (one of only two flying figures I had) over to dislodge them. But since it was a zig-zag wall, she could only land at the end of the Airborne Elite line and start munching them in melee, one by one. This worked fine - until Denrick showed up. In true cinematic fashion, he scaled a ladder, and thanks to a move glyph, closed with Mimring. Two sword swipes latter, she was gone. If your team has one key huge figure on it, beware of Denrick.

[tmacdagreat]

I like Drake better.

[Hendal]

Eclipse, great call on this one. I love your idea of making him +1 attack verses large guys, I also hate house rules changing the cards, but if you want people to even consider some of the cards you kinda have to. Some of our old house rule changes have now been dropped since more units that work with them came out, like the gorillas, but the zettin cards have never really been drafted at 70 pts, but at 50 pts they get used every once in a while verses collecting dust.

We play once in a while no range battles, and the knights and Champions is a popular pick then, and IMO just fun to play. In a 400 pt. game to get real synergy with them it means no range. I would love to see a 50-70 pt human champion with a crossbow, give them some range to help a knight out. OR how about a knight on a horse with a lance and move 8.