DnDScape vs Classic in a dungeon setting

[LMB]

We picked up a few DnD sets and have been playing through the various scenarios. However, Little LMB had been getting frustrated by his inability to get through a room without losing most of his heroes, so tonight I had him go ahead and pick 360 points of heroes from ClassicScape and he cleaned house. He used Kaemon Awesome, Alastair McKillEverythingInSight and Sir Denrick (and often never even activated Denrick!) and won easily every time.

I used the standard baddies for each room.

I'd been planning on creating some new DnD-type scenarios (using Classic units) based on what I'd learned just using the DnD figs but tonight really shook up my view of how good they are(n't) and I'm left re-evaluating what I thought I knew.

Has anyone else tried anything like this and had a similar experience? Are the DnD heroes overpriced? Is it just his play style that favors the kind of heroes he chose?

[jschild]

Um, for that game he used Kaemon Awa - one of the best heroes in the game who has 2 attacks. He used Alastair MacDirk, another awesome hero with 2 potential attacks as well, and Denrick, who excels when fighting Large+ figures.

And you are surprised that he won?

[TnT2]

There are a couple issues - the biggest being choosing an attacking force KNOWING what the defending force is.

But, realistically, the goal of the defender in these scenarios is not to win. It is to concentrate on one attacker and kill that one. Then there is less in the next room.

A question - who started in the trap in room one?

[LMB]

Originally Posted by jschild

Um, for that game he used Kaemon Awa - one of the best heroes in the game who has 2 attacks. He used Alastair MacDirk, another awesome hero with 2 potential attacks as well, and Denrick, who excels when fighting Large+ figures.

And you are surprised that he won?

No, I'm not really surprised, he's really a good player for being 13 (he came in 6th (behind my 3rd) out of 22 in our last tourney). What surprised me was the huge (and I mean HUGE) difference between using the DnD figs and classic. The guys he used ripped through the baddies like they were made of wet tissue paper, that's something the DnD units were never able to do.

Originally Posted by TnT2

There are a couple issues - the biggest being choosing an attacking force KNOWING what the defending force is.

But, realistically, the goal of the defender in these scenarios is not to win. It is to concentrate on one attacker and kill that one. Then there is less in the next room.

A question - who started in the trap in room one?

I was able to take out Alastair in room 3, but he got the potion of healing in room 2 and just dominated with his over-extend. In room 1 Denrick was in the trap.

[Toad Rocket]

Well, if you break down the points per room you start with 220 points in the first room. You rescue an 80 point unit, then you get to pick another 60 points. Perhaps it would not be such a slaughter fest the classic heroes were broken down in the same manner.

By being able to choose 3 heroes worth 360 points means you got three stronger heroes instead of 4 diluted ones. Also, the heroes that were choosen have the ability to double attack (AM and KA) which is a HUGE advantage. Also you gain a figure with compartively excellent range and special attack in KA that owns the melee based bad guys. AM has a heavy attack and can overextend making him an effective hero killer.

Like it was mentioned, if you know what you are facing you can choose your heroes much more effectively. For 360 I suppose you could take Q9 and Raelin and just have a huge slaughter fest also.

I think the DND heroes were designed in part to make the scenario challenging.

[jschild]

Originally Posted by Toad Rocket

Well, if you break down the points per room you start with 220 points in the first room. You rescue an 80 point unit, then you get to pick another 60 points. Perhaps it would not be such a slaughter fest the classic heroes were broken down in the same manner.

By being able to choose 3 heroes worth 360 points means you got three stronger heroes instead of 4 diluted ones. Also, the heroes that were choosen have the ability to double attack (AM and KA) which is a HUGE advantage. Also you gain a figure with compartively excellent range and special attack in KA that owns the melee based bad guys. AM has a heavy attack and can overextend making him an effective hero killer.

Like it was mentioned, if you know what you are facing you can choose your heroes much more effectively. For 360 I suppose you could take Q9 and Raelin and just have a huge slaughter fest also.

I think the DND heroes were designed in part to make the scenario challenging.

Extreme emphasis on that last sentence. If I wanted to use your example in the opposite, for 360 points I could take DW7k, Deadeye Dan, and Kato (or Spartacus) and they would probably do worse.

Again, it's not proof of absolutely anything. It just shows you can cherry pick some figures who can trash the DnD figures. Nothing new there. The Krav can trash the Granite Guardians. The Knights can trash most any melee army. What matters is that the DnD figures are almost perfectly balanced for the figures they are supposed to work with, IE the ones included in the Master Set. They have to, otherwise it wouldn't be a Master Set. It has to work self-contained and that it does. Now, we've already seen the Greenroller from wave 11 which will be an excellent melee army (or higher risk all-around army) - those are the one's you should be making a comparison against, not great wave figures vs. Master Set figures.

[Killometer]

I think a big problem is that the MS3 scenarios were not designed to be run through but a team of single-minded, brute-killing machines, but by a party consisting of one of each of 4e DnD's four roles-Defender, Striker, Leader and Controller. Instead Little LMB had a Striker (KA), another Striker (Alastair) and a Defender (Denrick), which seriously upped his damage output, exceeding what the scenarios were designed for.

I have gone into more depth on 4e's ideas on roles and broken down all the HS Heroes by the role that I think they best fit into here. It might be easier to run the scenarios as a competitive challange if the requirement was to pick 1 hero from each role. [/shameless self plug]