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  #373  
Old April 10th, 2021, 02:47 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 4/10/21: Aquilla Yokai Spid

This design's definitely dripping with theme. It does seem odd that such a massive figure is only 90 points (and has such a high speed to boot). It'd be pretty fun to lull a bunch of gruts or drones around her and then blast her with DW9000 or Zelrig, though I'd imagine her true use would mostly just be as a screen for your ranged figures. Melee armies essentially have to kill her before they can get to any of your ranged units, at least on a smaller map.

So is her design broken? She does cost you at least one OM a round. And enemy ranged units can simply choose not to move and attack from a distance. I'm not really sure

~TAF

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  #374  
Old April 10th, 2021, 06:11 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 4/10/21: Aquilla Yokai Spid

Thanks for the feedback, TAF! It's greatly appreciated as always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
This design's definitely dripping with theme. It does seem odd that such a massive figure is only 90 points (and has such a high speed to boot). It'd be pretty fun to lull a bunch of gruts or drones around her and then blast her with DW9000 or Zelrig, though I'd imagine her true use would mostly just be as a screen for your ranged figures. Melee armies essentially have to kill her before they can get to any of your ranged units, at least on a smaller map.
Hmm. I hear you on the size to cost being a bit disconcerting (it's probably less strange than Zetacron only costing 60 points, but I know that his points generally come as a shock to people after only seeing the sculpt). There is a significant incentive to keep Ogumo as a more mid-cost investment, though, since Abe no Seimei is 130, Kincho is 60, the cheapest heavy hitter is Ibaraki-doji for 120... That's already 310 points, so a good foundation for the Yokai gets expensive very quickly. The Kirin already exists as a ~200 point investment for the army, so despite Ogumo's size, I think that the Yokai would really benefit from her sticking a bit below the 100 point mark (that also gives the Spiders another cheap alternative to the Wyvern instead of just Sujoah and Quahon).

The speed could probably decrease to 6, though. The idea behind 7 was to pay homage to the Fyorlag Spiders and offer an alternative to Nure Onna for achieving 7 move (which is very useful for Seimei's Shapeshift to develop each position further before switching back). I am a bit concerned about Predator Bonding driving Ogumo's price, though, especially since getting her back onto the battlefield is much easier with free turns of 7 move. Perhaps dropping it to 6 won't hurt the Yokai too much while keeping the Spiders a bit more in check?

Using her as a general screen for a ranged army is also definitely interesting. It does take basically wasting an OM each round to set up (the 4 range helps a bit, but you probably have better ranged attacks waiting if you're relying on that strategy), but it has decent potential to be frustrating for the opponent, especially if Raelin is backing up Ogumo. Of course, Seimei eases these OM requirements a good deal, but he also doesn't come cheaply.

Quote:
So is her design broken? She does cost you at least one OM a round. And enemy ranged units can simply choose not to move and attack from a distance. I'm not really sure
This is pretty much where I'm at, too. It's really difficult to tell just how much she actually impacts the game. I do like that she almost penalizes ranged figures more than anything else--melee figures would already have to break through Ogumo (or whatever they're currently engaged to) anyway, but she really limits the flexibility of ranged units to choose their footing and optimize their placements.

I think that a big part of whether "forcing" an opponent within range of Ogumo to engage one of your figures is tenable or not depends on how easily she falls down herself or how well she pairs with stuff like Rats. Raelin could potentially safely back Ogumo, but melee figures can limit their engagements and most ranged figures can simply stick to their spot and shoot from a distance. I feel like it shouldn't work, but I've been struggling to come up with concrete areas where it definitely won't. It's a super weird design either way for sure.
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  #375  
Old April 10th, 2021, 07:05 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 4/10/21: Aquilla Yokai Spid

I didn’t even consider something like Rats. What if the affected figure can move to her but there are Rats in the way that’d get Passing Swipes in doing so? You’d be really stuck then. It might actually be advantageous to use the Spiders as a screen for her for that very reason.

Part of the reason her worth is hard to say is that the range of her power depends on the Move value of the affected unit. Vipers and Spiders can get up to 9 Move pretty easily, they’d really get caught like flies on sap. Whereas units like the AE would basically be completely unaffected. It is fun to theorize about

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  #376  
Old April 10th, 2021, 07:47 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 4/10/21: Aquilla Yokai Spid

The intent with Rats or other figures standing in the way is that since the opposing figure is no longer unengaged when they move adjacent to them, the Yamagumo Snare no longer affects them (and so they can still circle engaged figures as well). I don't think that it's super clear from the wording, but this was my best attempt at "classic HS" language leaning on stuff like the Kozuke precedent. As a result, it actually isn't very advantageous to use with Spiders, since melee figures would probably want to come in and kill the spiders anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
Part of the reason her worth is hard to say is that the range of her power depends on the Move value of the affected unit. Vipers and Spiders can get up to 9 Move pretty easily, they’d really get caught like flies on sap. Whereas units like the AE would basically be completely unaffected. It is fun to theorize about
Definitely. The earliest drafts had Yamagumo Snare at a fixed range. This limits the applications more, but I found that combining a range limit with the conditional "can end their move adjacent to Ogumo" got a little wonky and confusing, since technically it could stop figures immediately in their tracks if they enter the range without being able to finish the move to get to her.

Stuff like the Airborne Elite (or worse, the Granite Guardians and Wildwoods) were the other main reason to experiment with limiting it based off of the figures' movement rather than a static aura. Figures with 3 or less move just might not be able to make it adjacent to Ogumo in one move if the aura is at 3 spaces, and anything less than that doesn't feel worth investing an Order Marker to activate.

There is also the problem of walking over lava. I could see an argument being made that a figure "can" try to move through lava and roll a 20 to reach her... The intent of the wording is that they're under no obligation to do so unless they have a valid move around the lava, of course. Wording this power in general is a nightmare.

I suppose that it would be possible to scrap the "lure" aspect of the power altogether and just go for a very mean Whirling Vortex:

Quote:
YAMAGUMO SNARE
If there is at least one revealed Order Marker on this Army Card, then when an opponent’s small or medium figure moves into a space within 3 clear sight spaces of Ogumo, that figure must end its move there. Figures can never move through any figure affected by Yamagumo Snare.
That kind of works (and it's breaking a lot less new ground for sure), but I don't love how it loses out on the theme of Ogumo drawing figures in. It would also necessitate losing the ranged attack, because otherwise Ogumo could literally kite for days. It also turns her into another melee-punishing figure, which I'm not a big fan of. I really like the idea of a figure that bothers ranged figures more than melee, especially in an army with stuff like Masha Shingai.
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  #377  
Old April 16th, 2021, 04:21 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 4/10/21: Aquilla Yokai Spid

I am almost wondering if the large spider would benefit from leaning more into the theme of drawing things in or actually luring them. I thought it would be interesting if you have some sort of trigger/condition where you rolled a d20 and if you hit a certain number then your opponent has to move them onto a landspace adjacent to your yokai (if possible, so as to prevent lava dunking).

Would kinda work like the horrifying visage ability on Z'thoth but in reverse and wouldn't give you the option to be the one moving them (bad lava!). Maybe it activates when they end their movement with X amount of spaces and forces them to move that extra X? So they have a chance to succumb or succeed. Then you can still have a cyberclaw effect while you have a revealed OM on the spider and your illusion break remains unchanged.

Perhaps that is too complicated but I've been thinking a lot about this unit lately, and about thematic design in general. Really sick sculpt for this one honestly. The fact that it can pull in a dragon and ensnare it is pretty crazy too. So glad we have breath weapons, haha!
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  #378  
Old April 27th, 2021, 09:20 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 4/10/21: Aquilla Yokai Spid

Thanks for the feedback, Shiftrex! I'm sorry that it's taken me so long to get around to responding to it--my HS time has been limited as of late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
I am almost wondering if the large spider would benefit from leaning more into the theme of drawing things in or actually luring them. I thought it would be interesting if you have some sort of trigger/condition where you rolled a d20 and if you hit a certain number then your opponent has to move them onto a landspace adjacent to your yokai (if possible, so as to prevent lava dunking).

Would kinda work like the horrifying visage ability on Z'thoth but in reverse and wouldn't give you the option to be the one moving them (bad lava!). Maybe it activates when they end their movement with X amount of spaces and forces them to move that extra X? So they have a chance to succumb or succeed. Then you can still have a cyberclaw effect while you have a revealed OM on the spider and your illusion break remains unchanged.

Perhaps that is too complicated but I've been thinking a lot about this unit lately, and about thematic design in general. Really sick sculpt for this one honestly. The fact that it can pull in a dragon and ensnare it is pretty crazy too. So glad we have breath weapons, haha!
Hmm, making it trigger when a figure ends its movement within X spaces and just having that figure be placed adjacent could definitely work--it reminds me a bit of Dienekes' Tether in that case, and it sidesteps the issue of figures standing in the way or broken map arrangements.

Here's what that could look like:
YAMAGUMO SNARE
If there is at least one revealed Order Marker on this card, then when an opposing figure ends its normal movement within 4 clear sight spaces of Ogumo, the player controlling that figure must immediately place that figure on an empty land space adjacent to Ogumo, if possible. Figures moved by Yamagumo Snare never take any leaving engagement attacks.
I think that this version could actually work? I'm struggling to think of ways that the power breaks anything. Probably the biggest change (other than decreasing the effective aura size) is that ranged figures will still get pulled in even if they stand still, but I don't mind that too much since Ogumo is somewhat meant to provide an option for the Yokai against ranged figures.

This also has the nice side effect of making it harder for Ogumo to perch on some height to boost herself up to 5 defense--rather, she has to be careful to avoid trapping herself with figures that can threaten her from height. It is pretty powerful as a defensive taunt, though, since melee figures are pretty much forced to attack Ogumo in this version. Perhaps it should be after attacking to give armies more flexibility before they get trapped in the snare?
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  #379  
Old May 15th, 2021, 05:10 PM
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Astro's Custom Units [Update 5/15/21: Post-Finals Mythology]

Having finally finished finals for this semester and having a whole two days to relax, I figured that now was a great time to polish off a few changes that I had been meaning to make to some customs and maybe post the next batch. It's the perfect break!

VISHANIA

First up, I had noticed a typo in Vishania's card that had been bugging me for a good while. Her Shakti ka Charan was supposed to be +2 attack to mirror her other OM-reliant boosts, not the +3 attack that escaped my eye on the posted card. Her Card Text was correct, but who reads that?

Based on early reports of games with Vishania that I've heard from others, I also decreased the cost by 10 points. She was already very difficult to leverage well, and the loss of +1 attack to her OM3 is a definite nerf compared to how she was behaving before. I'm hesitant to decrease her cost too much, though, given that she can still be really powerful in the endgame.

I also took this chance to update the Triple Attack wording to be a bit more intuitive. I was leaning on the established "may attack X additional time(s)" from Double Attack beforehand, but after further review I think that it makes more sense to buck that trend here. There's already precedent the other way with stuff like Major Q10 and Gräbermund from C3V's Public Playtesting forum, so I think going with the more intuitive form is probably better overall.

MOKUMOKUREN

Mokumokuren was also a bit overdue for some changes. First of all, although Disguise Revealed was great thematically, it was pretty problematic in practice. Given that you would only ever take Mokumokuren in Talingul armies where he bonds or in Yokai armies where revealed Order Markers can be moved, he simply never had a revealed Order Marker on his card and was always invisible. I also didn't like how it strayed from the core Yokai gameplay conceit of needing a revealed OM to get some very powerful effect--not only is the Yokai faction complex and benefitted by maintaining a consistent central mechanic, but this also results in more interesting decisions for where to leave OMs with Seimei, which I love.

His "Lesser" Shapeshift that made him better at shapeshifting than the other Yokai without Seimei involved never really sat well with me thematically, especially given that the source Mokumokuren legend is a relatively weak spirit that merely hints at the possession of something worse. Still, @Captain Stupendous has been relentless in convincing me to keep the Talingul synergy and not make Mokumokuren undraftable without Seimei, so I figured that an 8-space range limit on the switching both clearly emphasized that Mokumokuren is weaker than Kincho the Tanuki, and it nerfs Mokumokuren in exclusively-Talingul builds. Both seem like desirable effects to me.

Note that while Seimei is alive, Mokumokuren could still move via Shapeshift rather than via Lesser Shapeshift, so this change really only impacts Construct builds. Combined with the nerf to his invisibility, Mokumokuren now should better fit the Yokai mold of being "weird but interesting in X Army, but weirder and potentially better when Seimei is involved."

NURE ONNA

Nure Onna only got a minor change this time around. After her stint in the Pre-SoV Workshop, a few people mentioned that the defense penalty from Paralyzing Trap doesn't come across well enough without knowing the reason why it's happening (there's a lot of interesting lore about demonic boulder babies involved). Most people probably envision it as being something more normal like her coiling around a figure or poisoning them somehow, which I was trying to keep open a bit anyway with the vague name and inability to come up with a concise power name for what the power actually does.

Given that the Yokai are weird enough and already unfamiliar to most Western audiences, I figured that making a small thematic concession for a 20-point filler figure isn't too bad. Just imagine that Jotun and Bramcephys can't see the boulder baby or something.
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  #380  
Old May 15th, 2021, 05:39 PM
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Astro's Custom Units [Update 5/15/21: Post-Finals Mythology]

Now that those quick mythological updates are out of the way, it's time to continue the celebration with another mythologically-inspired unit! Don't worry, this time it's not a Yokai.

- - - - - - -

VIVAAN
Protector of Life


Saviors of Valledonn - Heroes of a Lost Time (4/4)



The figure used is Calikang #32 from the Pathfinder: Legends of Golarion set. Vivaan is a single-spaced figure.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!

CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!

DESIGN NOTES:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
  • VISHANIA : RAKSHA KARANEVAALA
    As an Asuri Hero, Vishania can trigger Vivaan's additional turn from RAKSHA KARANEVAALA with a revealed numbered Order Marker.

  • CRYPT GUARDIAN : ROYAL ESCORT
    As a Guard Hero, Vivaan may benefit from the Crypt Guardian's ROYAL ESCORT activation synergy.

  • WARDEN 816 : GUARD LEADERSHIP
    As a Guard, Vivaan may benefit from Warden 816's GUARD LEADERSHIP movement bonus.
Synergy Benefits Offered
  • N/A
As always, any comments or feedback are appreciated.

Last edited by Astroking112; May 26th, 2021 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Added basing information.
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  #381  
Old May 15th, 2021, 06:21 PM
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Astro's Custom Units [Update 5/15/21: Post-Finals Mythology?

Just when I thought I was done... They pulled me back in. In all seriousness, I saw a few missing units in the OP that I've been neglecting to fill in for several years at this point. The Mountain Giants are an old draft from one of the customs contests in 2018 that are a bit rough around the edges, but I still like the overall idea of them, even if it doesn't quite match what you'd first think of when you imagine giants.

Just think of this post as some vaguely Northern European-inspired mythology and it kind of fits the mythological theme, too.

- - - - - - -

MOUNTAIN GIANTS
Goliaths from the Hills


Saviors of Valledonn - Heroes of a Lost Time (3/4)



This card was created by Dr.Goomonkey for a QC3 Customs Contest in 2018. The figures used are Ogre Smasher, Ogre Clubber, and Ogre Guard from the unpainted Reaper Bones. The Mountain Giants are double-spaced figures.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!

CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!

DESIGN NOTES:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
  • ACOLARH : ULLAR'S AMULET
    As units that follows Ullar, Mountain Giants may benefit from Acolarh's ULLAR'S AMULET movement bonus.
Synergy Benefits Offered
  • N/A
As always, any comments or feedback are appreciated.

Last edited by Astroking112; May 26th, 2021 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Added basing information.
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  #382  
Old May 26th, 2021, 03:46 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 5/26/21: WWII Combat Medic]

Building further off of C3V's WWII Pathfinder faction after the addition of Lt. Col. James Smith, I really wanted to further define what makes the faction unique with another Common Hero centered around the Marching Orders ability. Here's what I came up with:

- - - - - - -

77TH INFANTRY MEDIC
Valiant Combat Medics


Last Light - Fighters from Fallen Fields (1/3)



The figure used is Easy Company Medic from the HeroClix: Cosmic Justice set.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!

CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!

DESIGN NOTES:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits ReceivedSynergy Benefits Offered
  • SIR ORRICK : A BROTHER'S CALL
    As Humans who follow Jandar, if engaged, 77th Infantry Medics may aid Sir Orrick's movement with his A BROTHER'S CALL ability.
As always, any comments or feedback are appreciated. WWII history is not my area of expertise, so if anyone else knows a more fitting or thematic name or the like, then please let me know.

Last edited by Astroking112; June 5th, 2021 at 11:11 PM. Reason: Fixed typo in synergy list.
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  #383  
Old May 26th, 2021, 04:56 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 5/26/21: WWII Medic]

Not sure if letting all the 8th Infantry Pathfinders AND all the 77th Infantry Medics move at once is a good idea.

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I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
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  #384  
Old May 26th, 2021, 05:23 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 5/26/21: WWII Medic]

The movement doesn't seem terribly powerful to me given the adjacency restriction? Generally, only a maximum of 6 ending spaces are opening up each OM and the soldiers can only move 5 spaces, so it's often been tough in my games to fill those with enough Pathfinders to reliably get in three attacks the next turn.

This is eased a lot by taking the Airborne Elite to get some other "landing spots" placed, to be fair, but the army already takes up a surprising amount of points. 6x Pathfinders (roughly two "squads") is 210 points, so the Airborne Elite take that up to 320 + 80 or more for a Unique Hero. I could see throwing the Medics in on top of that getting more overwhelming in high-point games, but I think that there are other units like Kato or Granite Guardians that scale even better as the points climb, since there are such a limited number of movement spaces for the WWII troops. My bigger balance concern was actually the high end of healing for one OM.

Or is your concern more from the perspective of design space, rather than a balance concern?
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