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  #37  
Old July 2nd, 2019, 12:41 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

Really dig the general direction being discussed here (negative aura, negative spirit).

I'd shy away from the re-roll aura (skimming a bit, but I've seen a couple people mention that) mainly because having to re-roll a lot of dice takes a long time to resolve. I think re-rolls might be fair game for a negative spirit that's only hitting one figure, but I wouldn't advise it on the aura.

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  #38  
Old July 2nd, 2019, 12:51 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Really dig the general direction being discussed here (negative aura, negative spirit).

I'd shy away from the re-roll aura (skimming a bit, but I've seen a couple people mention that) mainly because having to re-roll a lot of dice takes a long time to resolve. I think re-rolls might be fair game for a negative spirit that's only hitting one figure, but I wouldn't advise it on the aura.
It wouldn't take too long if the aura can only be used once per turn and Empress Kiova and Emperor Andask have a re-roll aura.
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  #39  
Old July 5th, 2019, 02:52 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

I kind of like Ronin's suggestion to make the Negative Spirit be the one that forces re-rolls.

I don't have a specific writeup I'd like in the OP here, just because we have so many different variants of the same basic ideas. If possible, though, I'd like everyone to bring up what their favorite options suggested so far for our three points of discussion are. Those points are:

Race: Demon or Kyrie
Negative Aura: Discuss options presented in this thread.
Negative Spirit: Discuss options presented in this thread.

For Race, I kind of like Demon for Darklord bonding. I feel like it will be otherwise impractical to actually keep his negative aura in effect.

For Negative Aura, I kind of like my Frailty Idea but it does also seem a little too powerful. This is maybe one point I feel we could use a little more brainstorming on as I don't think we've quite hit on something brilliant yet.

For Negative Spirit, I like a Spirit that can force a unique figure to re-roll their defense. Possibly their normal attacks also, if we want it to be particularly mean.
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  #40  
Old July 5th, 2019, 12:27 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

Warning: strong opinion to follow:

Master Set 1 has Raelin, who adds +2 Defense in 4 aura
Master Set 2 has Raelin, who adds +1 Defense in 6 aura
Master Set 3 has Ana K, who adds +1 Defense in 3 aura (small an medium figures against Utgar only)
Master Set 4 (AotP) HAS TO HAVE a figure that has a defense aura - or else IMHO its not a true Heroscape master set!!!

Ob Nixilis is a good opportunity to do this. We don't have to do with Ob Nixilis, but if not than another figure HAS to have a defensive aura, so we might has well do with him unless someone has a strong feeling another figure should have the defensive aura! With the precedent set by Ana Karithon, I'm OK with making ON have an "evil aura" where it only works on Utgar or Valkrill or against selected "good" generals, and/or other restrictions (heroes, size, etc). However I am also OK with an alternative to straight up Defense +1/2, such as re-rolling your defense dice or make opponent subtract or reroll attack die, as reducing opponent's attack is similar to adding defense. Frailty (or any auto-wound aura) is not considered this, however, so would not count as making this figure this master set's version of Raelin.

To stick with theme I think the aura should either add defense to only Utgar/Valkrill (maybe re-rolling defense dice would work) or negative attack aura that either subtracts attack or makes an opponent re-roll attack (we can also make it affect all figures except Utgar/Valkrill as opposed to specifying opponent's figures). As others have said re-rolling may increase game time and adds complications in wording (squads, multiple attack heroes, etc) so I lean towards a straight up -1 Attack aura, but with the right wording a reroll of your defense or opponent's attack would be OK.

As far as negative spirit, it should be less good than the aura in most circumstances but forces choices on opponent. We could do re-roll of defense as @All Your Pie suggested or a straight up -1 Attack or -1 Defense.

For left box stats I agree with consensus of others to make Demon and have Wolves of Badru & Death Knights Bonding:
Quote:
Demon
Unique Hero
Darklord
Relentless
Medium 5
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  #41  
Old July 5th, 2019, 12:41 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Warning: strong opinion to follow:

Master Set 1 has Raelin, who adds +2 Defense in 4 aura
Master Set 2 has Raelin, who adds +1 Defense in 6 aura
Master Set 3 has Ana K, who adds +1 Defense in 3 aura (small an medium figures against Utgar only)
Master Set 4 (AotP) HAS TO HAVE a figure that has a defense aura - or else IMHO its not a true Heroscape master set!!!
Strong opinion of my own. Three does not a pattern make.

More than that, I am very much opposed to doing another defensive aura. Why? Because it stacks, and the girls listed above already exist. Also, defensive powers slow down games, and defensive auras even more so. I do not want to see a defensive aura in the set period.
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  #42  
Old July 5th, 2019, 02:33 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

Reroll for the negative spirit ability gets a little weird, for better or worse, depending on how you look at it. I assume the intent is that the owner of this unit to decide if the unit the spirit is on has to reroll defense. I would put it on my own unit to be able to reroll when needed. If I couldn't put it on my unit, I'd put it on my teammate's. If opponents only, I'd use it in FFAs to control the battle by helping and/or hurting an opponent's unit, likely mixed with diplomacy.

The simpler way we be to force rerolls of only rolled shields, though that's really strong.

The aura + negative spirit is a pretty good design concept. If so something wild with it myself. Something like:

Soul Decay Aura
Whenever a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of <unit> attacks with a normal attack and no skulls are rolled, that figure receives 1 wound. If it is a figure you control, also remove 1 wound from this Army Card. <unit> is not affected by his own Soul Decay Aura.

Then to follow the theme, maybe:
Soul Decay Spirit
When <unit> is destroyed, you may place it on any Unique Hero Army Card. After any player takes a turn with that unit, that player must roll the 20-sided die. If they roll a 7 or less, that Hero receives a wound.

Not really Utgar, though (very Valkrill), which is what this unit should be if a Kyrie. The tail is problematic for that, though. Oddly, Hybrid is still my favorite option, though Demon isn't terrible.

I'm not opposed to bonding. Darklord is fine. It's worth knowing that Demon Bonding is currently in C3V pipeline as well.
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  #43  
Old July 5th, 2019, 04:51 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

I really like the idea of him becoming ranged hate while he is alive. Then the negative spirit once dead.


I'm going to put some thought into some specific ideas but something that creates a defensive aura against ranged attacks or prevents attacks to units within X spaces that are not adjacent or creates LOS issues for ranged attacks is what I was thinking. He goes with the melee units and allows them a way to cross the battlefield without getting shredded or relying heavily on LOS blockers. (There are maps I'd love to play but they don't have enough cover so I avoid them in favor of maps that provide plenty of LOS blockers to reduce how strong range is).
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  #44  
Old July 7th, 2019, 01:03 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Reroll for the negative spirit ability gets a little weird, for better or worse, depending on how you look at it. I assume the intent is that the owner of this unit to decide if the unit the spirit is on has to reroll defense. I would put it on my own unit to be able to reroll when needed. If I couldn't put it on my unit, I'd put it on my teammate's. If opponents only, I'd use it in FFAs to control the battle by helping and/or hurting an opponent's unit, likely mixed with diplomacy.

The simpler way we be to force rerolls of only rolled shields, though that's really strong.

The aura + negative spirit is a pretty good design concept. If so something wild with it myself. Something like:

Soul Decay Aura
Whenever a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of <unit> attacks with a normal attack and no skulls are rolled, that figure receives 1 wound. If it is a figure you control, also remove 1 wound from this Army Card. <unit> is not affected by his own Soul Decay Aura.

Then to follow the theme, maybe:
Soul Decay Spirit
When <unit> is destroyed, you may place it on any Unique Hero Army Card. After any player takes a turn with that unit, that player must roll the 20-sided die. If they roll a 7 or less, that Hero receives a wound.

Not really Utgar, though (very Valkrill), which is what this unit should be if a Kyrie. The tail is problematic for that, though. Oddly, Hybrid is still my favorite option, though Demon isn't terrible.

I'm not opposed to bonding. Darklord is fine. It's worth knowing that Demon Bonding is currently in C3V pipeline as well.
-For Race, I like Demon/Darklord bonding, following Vakrill.

I now prefer powers as described by Scytale since they would match his Darklord/Demon personality and the initial 'jinxing' power he had but with a darker power rather than just a trickster.

I like Soul Decay, with just a little tweak:
Soul Decay Aura
Whenever an enemy figure within 4 clear sight spaces of <unit> attacks/defends and rolls all blanks that figure receives 1 wound.

-I like Soul Decay Spirit as it stands as described by Scytale.
(I think it would be overpowered, but I think it would be cool to make Soul Decay Spirit 'spread' to another enemy figure if the figure dies unless the figure 'sacrifices itself on a successful roll)
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  #45  
Old July 15th, 2019, 12:21 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

In case anyone hasn't seen, the squad with a form of Demon Bonding in the pipeline over at C3V was just put into Public Playtesting. It's not a finalized unit, but it should be helpful to pod members here in determining whether they want to avoid any Demon synergies with this design or not. One of the goals of AotV is to maintain compatibility with C3V and SoV, so I'd recommend at least taking a look to see what making Ob Nixilus a demon would entail.
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  #46  
Old July 16th, 2019, 02:02 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

I don't think I'm quite prepared to put together a complete design in the OP for this unit yet. We've seen a lot of good ideas, many of which could be what we go with, but none of them have built up much steam.

I think it is important for us to decide on species for this unit sooner rather than later, though. The types of aura we can put on a bonding unit are more limited than what we can do with a standalone unit, so weighing in on that should be a priority. I'm still fine with Demon myself. It seems like Hybrid is the strongest competing option though, which only comes with the much less dangerous Werewolf Lord synergy.

Last edited by All Your Pie; July 16th, 2019 at 04:15 AM.
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  #47  
Old July 16th, 2019, 08:33 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

My vote would be for Hybrid, Valkrill and something like

Quote:
I like Soul Decay, with just a little tweak:
Soul Decay Aura
Whenever an enemy figure within 4 clear sight spaces of <unit> attacks/defends and rolls all blanks that figure receives 1 wound.
and Scytale's idea

Quote:
Then to follow the theme, maybe:
Soul Decay Spirit
When <unit> is destroyed, you may place it on any Unique Hero Army Card. After any player takes a turn with that unit, that player must roll the 20-sided die. If they roll a 7 or less, that Hero receives a wound.
He is also medium 6

Last edited by The Long eared bat; July 16th, 2019 at 08:56 AM.
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  #48  
Old July 16th, 2019, 02:37 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
My vote would be for Hybrid, Valkrill and something like

Quote:
I like Soul Decay, with just a little tweak:
Soul Decay Aura
Whenever an enemy figure within 4 clear sight spaces of <unit> attacks/defends and rolls all blanks that figure receives 1 wound.
and Scytale's idea

Quote:
Then to follow the theme, maybe:
Soul Decay Spirit
When <unit> is destroyed, you may place it on any Unique Hero Army Card. After any player takes a turn with that unit, that player must roll the 20-sided die. If they roll a 7 or less, that Hero receives a wound.
He is also medium 6
Ooen to Hybrid because of new info about custom synergies with demonkind raised.
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