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View Poll Results: Are WotC's recent actions unethical?
yes 24 28.24%
no 44 51.76%
I don't know 1 1.18%
Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down 16 18.82%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old November 19th, 2010, 02:13 PM
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Question Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Due to recent posts of mine and reactions of some people of those posts, I wanted to have a vote on if you feel that Wizards of the Coasts recent actions involving Heroscape and Customer support are unethical. That doesn't mean illegal. It means are they using poor business practice that warrent a BBB complaint or a boycott. I decided to start this thread to avoid hijacking a different thread.



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  #2  
Old November 19th, 2010, 02:28 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Here is the copied post from the other thread I was mentioning that was in danger of being Hijacked, of which I take full responsibility for. It's a worthy discussion I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Minivann View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lafleurhero View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryfalia View Post
How, precisely, is cancelling a game 'breaking ethics'? Not only that, they informed you BEFORE the last set came out, which is actually a good move from a company, because it lets people decide about making purchases based on that knowledge...
not so much the canceling of a product but the idea of holding onto the license anyway. Ethics are different than laws and to hold on to a license and not allow other companies to use that license if your not. Well to me that is unethical, it may be standard business practice, but still unethical in my view, the way others have reacted I think others feel it's unethical also. Just because it is common practice and legal doesn't make it right in my view. Actually if you look at it another way it could be considered monopolizing and stock manipulation which are illegal. Anyway, that isn't the point of this thread, the point is about how to effectively get from WotC what he should be entitled to as far as customer support, and that is how to do it. Ethics really are just a point of view though, for instance some people consider abortions unethical while others consider denying womens rights to abortions as unethical. In this situation though the golden rule of business applies, which is "The customer is always right" It was a common phrase in the 90's but few companies seem to use that philosophy any more. When using that point of view though WotC is wrong for what it did and BBB complaints are legit.

I want to leave off with saying that I have every intention of being a BBB accredited business, unfortunately they won't accept any company that hasn't been in business for at least one year. I guess that makes sense though. From my own report pull ups of WotC I know that they are not accredited with the BBB, however they do still have a B- rating currently and the BBB still deals with companies that are not accredited. Complaints may not get WotC to do what they should but it would help accurately show what the rating should be if complaints are made.
So what you are saying is that if I were to write a book, for example, (and no publishing company held the rights to it in any way), I self-published the book, and then decided not to publish the book, I would be unethical if some publishing company wanted to sell the book, and I refused to allow it?
In response to Agent Minivann. I think that in that given, no the author may not of broken any ethics. But in a better compairison, lets say that author was producing a very popular series of books. Abruptly in the middle of the series, while the series was most popular the author decided to stop writting, not only that he would not allow any further copies of previous books to be printed nor sell the rights of the series to other authors that may want to continue the series where he left off. I think in that situation it would be unethical. In order for that author to be fair he would either have to allow another author to continue the series, finish the series himself (even if it's a bit shorter than planned), or refund those books that had been sold up to that point. Robert Jordan is an example of this. He had to go and die before completing The Wheel of Times which really upset a lot of fans. He should of completed his series before before choosing to die (I hope people realize these statements are a bit of a joke, of course he couldn't help dieing and I was very sad for his death, he brought much joy to us fans.) Of course Mr. Jordan allowed another great author to finish the series for him, of which I am gratefull.



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Last edited by lafleurhero; November 19th, 2010 at 02:39 PM.
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  #3  
Old November 19th, 2010, 02:29 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

TOTALLY UNETHICAL!

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Old November 19th, 2010, 02:32 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Canceling the game is not unethical.
Not selling the licence to another party is not unethical.
Poor packaging is not unethical (although it is despicable).
Poor customer support of package screw ups borders on unethical.

Of these, only the last deserves being reported to the BBB, not that I think it will have any effect.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 02:32 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Minivann View Post
So what you are saying is that if I were to write a book, for example, (and no publishing company held the rights to it in any way), I self-published the book, and then decided not to publish the book, I would be unethical if some publishing company wanted to sell the book, and I refused to allow it?
I have to agreen with AM. As much as I want Hasbro/WotC to continue Scape I don't see how it would be unethical for them hold onto the rights to something their company created and not allow someone else to use it.

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Old November 19th, 2010, 02:45 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Rickroll the poll!

Seriously, though, greed in itself is unethical to me so every company besides maybe Ben & Jerry's until 1995 (including Google whose slogan is "Don't be Evil") could be considered unethical for that. When the bottom line is the Bottom dollar, all's fair just like love and war. They are STUPID in the fact that they could have made more money by doing treating customers better, but unless you are voluntarily homeless to save the lives of people you have never met you have some greed in you and therefore cannot call anyone who tries to make money unethical. I consider myself to be greedy (and therefore unethical in some ways) for living in an apartment and buying a game when the rent and game money could save 10 lives a year therefore I refuse to call the kettle Dungeon black.

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Old November 19th, 2010, 02:56 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier View Post
Canceling the game is not unethical.
Not selling the licence to another party is not unethical.
Poor packaging is not unethical (although it is despicable).
Poor customer support of package screw ups borders on unethical.
That's pretty much it, except poor customer support isn't unethical, it's arguably a bad business choice. No company is required to have awesome customer support, it just makes that company who they are, for better or worse.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:04 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?



If you include that as an option in ANY poll, I will pick it.

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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:05 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

For me it wasn't just 'scape. They killed M:tG with Llorwyn IMHO...

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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:11 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

I don't think it's an argument of ethics but rather an argument of how F-ing lame a company is. Whenever a game isn't meeting the numbers Hasbro/WotC wants the game is doomed no matter how much the players love it. They can look at the collective buyers of the game as too small to care and give them the finger. Hasbro/WotC is a business and they just don't have to give a damn. We can complain to the BBB but I don't think anything will come of it as it is a case of where we don't have to spend our money on their products, we are choosing to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krysto2002 View Post
For me it wasn't just 'scape. They killed M:tG with Llorwyn IMHO...
Bah, they killed Magic back in the mid 90's with sucky rule changes.

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Old November 19th, 2010, 03:11 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Cat View Post


If you include that as an option in ANY poll, I will pick it.

was it unethical of me to Rickroll the Poll?



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  #12  
Old November 19th, 2010, 04:54 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lafleurhero View Post
In response to Agent Minivann. I think that in that given, no the author may not of broken any ethics. But in a better compairison, lets say that author was producing a very popular series of books. Abruptly in the middle of the series, while the series was most popular the author decided to stop writting, not only that he would not allow any further copies of previous books to be printed nor sell the rights of the series to other authors that may want to continue the series where he left off. I think in that situation it would be unethical. In order for that author to be fair he would either have to allow another author to continue the series, finish the series himself (even if it's a bit shorter than planned), or refund those books that had been sold up to that point. Robert Jordan is an example of this. He had to go and die before completing The Wheel of Times which really upset a lot of fans. He should of completed his series before before choosing to die (I hope people realize these statements are a bit of a joke, of course he couldn't help dieing and I was very sad for his death, he brought much joy to us fans.) Of course Mr. Jordan allowed another great author to finish the series for him, of which I am gratefull.
I just don't understand how an individual or group/company controlling their intellectual property is unethical. That makes zero sense. IP and copyright laws are in place for this very reason, to protect the creator. At the very best I would call what they did unfair to the fans, but that is a long way away from being unethical.
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