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  #12037  
Old July 1st, 2013, 11:10 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post
Figures only receive a wound if the tree is destroyed.

Do you guys even play with the other terrain-turned-into-DOs?

What would you suggest to make them a DO? Just say that it's replaced by a swamp water tile and reduce it's defense, so that it's a viable target instead of those under the tree?

It seems like you guys have no problem with the other ones, but yet you're not in favor of this one....
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
See, my problem with the Jungle Tree is that I don't really feel that it adds anything. The Jungle Pieces already sort of act as DOs (they have "powers" but aren't destructible). Plus, their biggest use is as a balancing factor for melee VS range and if ranged units can sit back and snipe at trees, wounding the melee figures using them for cover, it takes away from the effect that the trees already have. I get that people want to be able to destroy them, but I'd rather do it for the sake of a good design than for the sake of making them destructible.
Like others have said, and I aid in my original post, the Jungle Pieces already have powers, they're DOs that are not destructible. The other converted DOs (which I do play with occasionally) took what were at the time only obstacles for LOS blocking and made them interact differently with the map, while the current Jungle Tree design doesn't add anything or only adds, in my opinion, negatives. I usually try to offer suggestions when I criticize a design, but I just keep drawing a blank here. Bats' suggestion would be fine, though it's still not likely to get my vote, I think in part because I just don't feel the need to make the Jungle Tree into a DO. I'd love to be swayed by a good design though!

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  #12038  
Old July 1st, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I think part of the problem is that the Jungle rules already give them a power ... I honestly think a card with the +1 defense power spelled out on it and life/defense stats to make it destructible would be a lot easier to sell folks on.

And yes, I do use terrain DOs, particularly in scenario play.
I would certainly be able to work with that.
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  #12039  
Old July 1st, 2013, 11:37 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

I love having more DOs and the idea of making the trees more interactive than a simple bonus for standing next to it seems rather appealing for a super powered battle. That said, I don't want it destroyed for destruction's sake.

When I think of superheroes and trees I think of Thing ripping the tree out of the ground and swinging for a home run or a telekinetic type pulling the tree out and throwing it through the air like a spear (especially a palm tree); after which there is no more tree.
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  #12040  
Old July 1st, 2013, 11:43 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire View Post
I love having more DOs and the idea of making the trees more interactive than a simple bonus for standing next to it seems rather appealing for a super powered battle. That said, I don't want it destroyed for destruction's sake.

When I think of superheroes and trees I think of Thing ripping the tree out of the ground and swinging for a home run or a telekinetic type pulling the tree out and throwing it through the air like a spear (especially a palm tree); after which there is no more tree.
Ahh, so allow it to be a weapon? It would have to be destroyed after use, no matter what, since placement is harder for Jungle than other DOs.

Interesting discussion. Wish it was brought up sooner.
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  #12041  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:04 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

LADDER



MINI:
Spoiler Alert!


NAME = LADDER
UNIQUENESS/TYPE = Destructible Object
LIFE = 1
DEFENSE = 1


LINKS
For every rung on this ladder, roll one extra defense die.

TIPPING LADDER
A figure that occupies a Ladder when it is destroyed is placed on the same space the Ladder was on and will not take any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure moved lower can receive any falling damage that may apply.

Though numerous pronunciation attempts have been made, I have recently spurned my moniker. Feel free to refer to me as BowTieJones instead.
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  #12042  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:12 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

I can see Mega's confusion about the arguments. It doesn't make sense that everyone against the Jungle tree is ok with ruins, icebergs and battlements being DOs that COMPLETELY block line of sight (a MUCH better protection than a measly +1 defense vs range attacks).

A jungle tree DO will have a much smaller affect on the game than the Icebergs and ruins.

Possibly give the jungle tree a d20 chance to be missed by a non adjacent attack since they are skinny. Maybe that would help convince others?

I also like Hellfire's idea.

I am honestly fine with it right now though...since it is definitely on the lighter end of how much it will affect the game compared to most of the other terrain DOs.
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  #12043  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:25 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

I'm with Bats on having no desire to see the walls and ladders as DOs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weebaer View Post
A jungle tree DO will have a much smaller affect on the game than the Icebergs and ruins.
That's part of my problem with the design. It doesn't have much of an effect beyond the one the Jungle Trees already have, so what's the point in doing it?

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  #12044  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 02:08 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by weebaer View Post
I can see Mega's confusion about the arguments. It doesn't make sense that everyone against the Jungle tree is ok with ruins, icebergs and battlements being DOs that COMPLETELY block line of sight (a MUCH better protection than a measly +1 defense vs range attacks).
It makes perfect sense to me. If my options are not to roll any attack dice because the only target in range is completely hidden behind an object or shoot at the object the figure is hiding behind, in the hopes that I might destroy it and take away that hiding place, I'm going to shoot at the object. Especially if I have a ranged multi-attacker, I might get lucky and be able to use a later attack on the actual figure. If my options are to shoot at an opponents figure or the tree that figure is standing behind but is not blocking my LOS, I'm going to shoot at the figure every time. Especially if even with the +1 defense bonus the target still has a lower defense then the tree does. I'd rather just put those wounds on the figure.

Also the ruins, trees, & rocks had no powers that interacted with the game rules other then providing a LOS blocker until the DO cards were created. The Jungle Tree already has an interactive power, the +1 to defense vs. ranged attacks and only really provides LOS blocking for the smallest of figures. The ruins, trees, and rocks are all easy to remove from the board as well since they just sit on top of the hexes. The Jungle Tree is locked in as part of map which makes stopping the game play to remove it and then replace it with something else a chore. Thus I don't see the validity of a direct comparison between them.

I am also not interested in the ladders or castle walls becoming a DO.
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  #12045  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 05:46 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

FWIW I'm not really a fan of DOs in general. They hold no apeal for me game play wise.
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  #12046  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 07:17 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Shouldn't this have been brought up before the voting in nominations took place? The Jungle Tree could win the nominations and it's now only just coming about that it's design is to be questioned.

Going with the weapon idea of it though, something like this could be an option?

If there is a figure with the Super Strength special power adjacent to this Jungle Tree, instead of attacking with that figure, you choose one of the following effects. After using this special power, destroy this Jungle Tree.
~roll one unblockable attack die against all non-Huge figures within ? clear sight spaces of the figure who's base is no more than ? levels above or below the figure's height.
~choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of the figure and roll one unblockable attack die.
~ choose a figure within ? clear sight spaces who's base is no more than ? levels above or below this figure's height and roll one unblockable attack die. If the chosen figure receives a wound, you may place the figure within on any unoccupied space up to 4 spaces of it's original placement. Moved figures never take any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure moved lower can receive any falling damage that may apply.
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  #12047  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 08:59 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
The Jungle Tree is locked in as part of map which makes stopping the game play to remove it and then replace it with something else a chore.
This kinda made me giggle I wouldnt say it stops the game nor does it take longer than 15secs to do. I am honestly an outsider. I never have played with DOs and I dont really plan to ever either. From an outsider's point of view though this argument looks really wonky.


I see lots of scapers who like DOs which provide new and interactive decisions in the game. This seem like just another option for anyone who plays with DOs to have fun with DOs. I don't know. From all the maps I have played on/viewed played on I would not consider it a chore to move and replace jungle pieces.

I do also think it is unfair to bring this argument up at this point in the game as well, especially for the LD...
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  #12048  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:48 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

Better now than when it gets into a design thread.

As a general rule, I think simpler is better for DOs. I'd love a card that just plain reminded me of the +1 defense power (which I often forget) and let you destroy the trees if you chose to. I think that'd be a very nice, light touch.

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