Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Rules & FAQ's
Official Rules & FAQ's Compilation and discussion of official HeroScape Rules and Frequently Asked Questions. **Special attacks never receive any bonuses.**


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 25th, 2019, 01:12 AM
SuperSamyon's Avatar
SuperSamyon SuperSamyon is offline
 
Join Date: January 5, 2012
Location: USA - TX - Houston
Posts: 329
Images: 17
SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby!
Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

Let's settle this once and for all because I see so many conflicting views on this ruling. What is the official ruling for Double Space figures and line of sight and clear sight? Here is what the rules say:

1. You can't flip a double space figure after they move.

2. You must get behind a figure to see if they have line of sight.

3. Q9 can block his line of sight.

Logically, it doesn't make much sense that the makers of the game would make a point to say you can't flip a double spaced figure during the attack phase if line of sight wasnt going to be an issue. It seems they were anticipating a time when a double spaced character would want to see a figure behind them but they were facing the wrong way hence the need to flip the base.

From a simplicity standpoint, it's more difficult to think that a double spaced figure eyes can see on the back of his head.

Also, it seems odd that Q9's shoulder pads obstruct his view yet he can still see behind himself. Logically, if he can see behind he should be able to turn his waist and see to the sides. Perhaps there is a reluctancy to make a hard stand on these rules because people are used to playing where a double spaces figure sees in all directions. Maybe Q9 was never meant to be that strong and playing him wrong all these years made him into the powerhouse he is today.

I think the rules make it clear that a double spaced figure can only see where he is facing.

What are your thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 25th, 2019, 01:20 AM
superfrog's Avatar
superfrog superfrog is offline
This is merely a joke.
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: USA - CA - South Pasadena
Posts: 8,996
Images: 4
Blog Entries: 1
superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

I've always played that LoS can be blocked by any part of a figure other than its head.

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
make a card/post your maps

google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

CVN~ "I highly recommend C3V customs!"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 25th, 2019, 08:54 AM
flameslayer93's Avatar
flameslayer93 flameslayer93 is offline
I could go
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: Akina Pass (Cleveland, Ohio)
Posts: 7,122
Images: 93
Blog Entries: 37
flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

For serious or casual play, my stance on LOS is the same: Don’t take it too seriously. The only time to start questioning it is if there are a bunch of minis/trees/whatever around. This includes letting Q9 shoot through his shoulder pads, or whatever.

I don’t get to play as often as I’d like, so I’d rather make my games as relaxed as possible.

My customs.
NE Ohio Tourney - TBA
SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points
AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 25th, 2019, 09:47 AM
shaolin shaolin is offline
 
Join Date: July 27, 2018
Location: USA - MA - Worcester (Auburn)
Posts: 142
shaolin knows what's in an order marker shaolin knows what's in an order marker shaolin knows what's in an order marker
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

Can a double space figure moonwalk? Just spin them during the move phase and have them back into where they want to go. Or if they aren’t moving they should be able to spin as part of the move phase, right?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 25th, 2019, 09:58 AM
flameslayer93's Avatar
flameslayer93 flameslayer93 is offline
I could go
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: Akina Pass (Cleveland, Ohio)
Posts: 7,122
Images: 93
Blog Entries: 37
flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun flameslayer93 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolin View Post
Can a double space figure moonwalk? Just spin them during the move phase and have them back into where they want to go. Or if they aren’t moving they should be able to spin as part of the move phase, right?
Double spacers can definitely moonwalk. And they can certainly flip when needed.

My customs.
NE Ohio Tourney - TBA
SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points
AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 25th, 2019, 10:27 AM
shaolin shaolin is offline
 
Join Date: July 27, 2018
Location: USA - MA - Worcester (Auburn)
Posts: 142
shaolin knows what's in an order marker shaolin knows what's in an order marker shaolin knows what's in an order marker
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolin View Post
Can a double space figure moonwalk? Just spin them during the move phase and have them back into where they want to go. Or if they aren’t moving they should be able to spin as part of the move phase, right?
Double spacers can definitely moonwalk. And they can certainly flip when needed.
I bet Grimnak has some sweet moves
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 25th, 2019, 03:06 PM
lefton4ya's Avatar
lefton4ya lefton4ya is offline
PDFin' sweet self spammer
 
Join Date: December 22, 2008
Location: USA - OH/KY - Cincinnati/Florence
Posts: 4,361
Images: 127
Blog Entries: 1
lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death! lefton4ya is hot lava death!
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

I meant to post my most recent post on this thread as opposed to on the Book of Major Q10 . We can continue conversation here though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
This came up again recently - I may be an a$$ for asking it, but can Q9/Q10 use a special attacks to shoot both in front of and behind them, where the figure's eyes cannot see the figure since a figure is behind him (so the head itself blocks LOS using the "get behind" terminology in the rulebook) and double-space figures cannot flip during attack phase (the best they can do is "shift" on the spaces it is on)? From the FAQ quote above by @R˙chean "With double-space figures, facing does matter" it seems the answer is no, but everyone seems to agree this is being too much of a stickler and against the spirit of the rules, even in tournaments.

If I am correct, using the head instead of the eyes as a target point is one of the most abused rules as no one seems to care (including myself most of the time). Nilfheim, Moltenclaw, and other dragons were even erratad to allow their horns as alternative target points in addition to head, specifically for this rule. Maybe we need an "errata" for Q9/Q10 that says you can use any part of the head as a target point, but until then I will start being a stickler, especially since I always play against Q9/Q10, rarely with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Goomonkey View Post
I still stand by my last post, and now refuse to edit the word figured into figures. It has officially been grandfathered in.

Anyways, I thought a couple pictures could either help this conversation reach an end, or spiral out of control further; both of which would be good, right?

Given the following situation, where Q10 wants to face that way because there's a figure over there (apparently off the board) that he really wants to shoot. Now, which of these Rats can he shoot, if either.



The bottom one, as is somewhat clear in the picture, cannot be seen from Q10's head, so there is no way he can shoot it unless he turned around (which he cannot do during his attack phase).

The top one, as you can see in this next picture, can be seen from his head, though the space between his shoulder and his back-hump, and thus can be attacked?



Let the nitpicking begin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAQ
Page 5:
Attacks
...
If a single space figure is not facing another figure that he is attacking, does he have line of sight?
... With double-space figures, facing does matter, as certain areas of the body may block Line of Sight. Remember that you can flip your figure anytime during a double-space figures move, so keep Line of Sight in mind when you are moving.

Page 11:
Major Q9
“Raknar’s Vision”
Can Major Q9‟s shoulder pads block his own line of sight?
Yes. When checking to see if you have a clear line of sight with Q9, you may want to look behind the targeted figure’s Hit Zone to see if you can see Q9’s head, or the side of his face. He cannot fire directly behind himself. (Hasbro FAQ)
This Q9 FAQ is confusing because the first part of it "see if you can see Q9’s head, or the side of his face" seems to contradict with "He cannot fire directly behind himself" as the first statement seems to imply that you can fire behind yourself, but the Attack FAQ + the Errata for Dragons using their horns make it pretty clear that you cannot see through your own head. Anyway I would love a clarification as I feel like an A$$ telling someone playing Q9/Q10 you can't shoot in front of AND behind you on the same turn when EVERYONE plays otherwise even though IMHO that is the rule.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 25th, 2019, 03:58 PM
SuperSamyon's Avatar
SuperSamyon SuperSamyon is offline
 
Join Date: January 5, 2012
Location: USA - TX - Houston
Posts: 329
Images: 17
SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

@lefton4ya no, you are reading it correctly. The way I interpret Hasbro here, is basically "Q9 cannot fire behind himself. With that in mind, use your opponents figure and see if you can see any of the facing Q9s head. If you can, he can hit you." You would never do the above exercise if Q9 wasn't facing you.

They should have said the last sentence first about not firing behind you when clarifying so it reads better.

The way I play, whatever direction Q9 is facing, I basically take a 180 degree half circle in front of the figure and anything in that vicinity can be targeted unless something like say, shoulder pads blocks it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 25th, 2019, 05:00 PM
superfrog's Avatar
superfrog superfrog is offline
This is merely a joke.
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: USA - CA - South Pasadena
Posts: 8,996
Images: 4
Blog Entries: 1
superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

Lefton4ya has quoted the relevant rules: You must draw a line of sight through a figure's head, and Q9 cannot see behind himself (except by the side of his head).

Look at this picture of Q9 and Q10 from behind. Can you see their heads?



No, you can't, and that's why they don't have LoS behind themselves.

In my mind, there's only one ruling that is consistent with established rules:

There must be a clear line of sight from a "seeing" figure's Target Point to the other figure's Hit Zone. This line must not pass through any part of the "seeing" figure's body other than its head.

This means that figures with a head in front, like many soulborgs, cannot see behind themselves. Shurrak would be another example. Figures like Jotun don't have this problem since their head is on top of their body.

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
make a card/post your maps

google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

CVN~ "I highly recommend C3V customs!"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 25th, 2019, 07:12 PM
SuperSamyon's Avatar
SuperSamyon SuperSamyon is offline
 
Join Date: January 5, 2012
Location: USA - TX - Houston
Posts: 329
Images: 17
SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

That's great insight @superfrog thank you! What are your thoughts on
Nerak the glacian swog and his clear sight power?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 25th, 2019, 07:38 PM
superfrog's Avatar
superfrog superfrog is offline
This is merely a joke.
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: USA - CA - South Pasadena
Posts: 8,996
Images: 4
Blog Entries: 1
superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

He can see in all directions, since the target point is the orc's head, which is on top of the sculpt. His back arm and shoulder guard may block some LoS but I don't think it's very much.

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
make a card/post your maps

google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

CVN~ "I highly recommend C3V customs!"
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 25th, 2019, 11:44 PM
SuperSamyon's Avatar
SuperSamyon SuperSamyon is offline
 
Join Date: January 5, 2012
Location: USA - TX - Houston
Posts: 329
Images: 17
SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby! SuperSamyon rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Settling Line of Sight Rules for Double Spaced Figures

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
He can see in all directions, since the target point is the orc's head, which is on top of the sculpt. His back arm and shoulder guard may block some LoS but I don't think it's very much.
Thank you!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Rules & FAQ's
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do figures have line of sight on themselves? Markb97402 Comic Hero Custom Creations 2 March 8th, 2018 11:08 AM
The final word in settling line of site Purplebeard HeroScape General Discussion 7 January 12th, 2008 04:22 PM
Who uses the line of sight? Hsfan123 General 11 August 16th, 2006 10:36 AM
Line of Sight Thingemon Official Rules & FAQ's 6 August 11th, 2006 12:19 PM
Double-spaced figures and Fire Line DrFeelgood Official Rules & FAQ's 10 June 28th, 2006 03:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:20 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.