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  #97  
Old November 13th, 2019, 01:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Nice though. Only thing is people still disagree if PLACED=MOVED or not, so to clear up maybe just add "...figure [is placed] or moves at least one space and is placed or ends its movement..."
Doesn't matter if they disagree or not; it's in the official FAQ. Placed = moved.
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  #98  
Old December 7th, 2019, 08:31 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Are we all happy with this.
Quote:
TETHER OF LOGOS
If a small or medium figure moves at least one space and ends its movement within 3 clear sight spaces of Dienekes, if it is no more than 3 levels above Dienekes's height or 3 levels below his base, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 7 or higher, place that figure on any same-level space adjacent to Dienekes. If the figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
I like Dienekes being able to move your own figures as well as opponent's. Although wordy I think it is understandable for beginners.

Last edited by The Long eared bat; December 7th, 2019 at 11:04 AM.
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  #99  
Old December 7th, 2019, 12:57 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Thinking on it more, I can get behind that proposal. 3 spaces is a lot so Iím not worried about losing utility.

Thoughts @Jaur0n , @Fakeraistlin ?
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  #100  
Old December 10th, 2019, 10:45 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Simpler to be easily understood and useful. Very nice
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  #101  
Old December 11th, 2019, 11:27 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Maybe I'm just missing what it's role is. It's kind of gone from a pain in the butt to escape from to a I move people around sometimes and if I move your guy he has to attack me if he's dumb enough to end his movement within 3 spaces of me.

My lack of imagination might be preventing me form seeing why I would want this guy his my army. I understand why we have to change it but it feels kind of meh or I'm missing why it's awesome. Can anyone help me get there?
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  #102  
Old December 11th, 2019, 11:33 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
Maybe I'm just missing what it's role is. It's kind of gone from a pain in the butt to escape from to a I move people around sometimes and if I move your guy he has to attack me if he's dumb enough to end his movement within 3 spaces of me.

My lack of imagination might be preventing me form seeing why I would want this guy his my army. I understand why we have to change it but it feels kind of meh or I'm missing why it's awesome. Can anyone help me get there?
The role is still the same, with some added utility. He's a defender, forcing enemy figures to attack him instead of more important figures. Anything that moves near him he pulls next to himself, and forces them to attack him. He also is able to pull allies close, which helps being able to protect them.

This is easily my favorite of our designs, with many interesting applications. Especially good for dungeon crawl scenarios, but also especially good when combined with a ranged pod like Raelin + Krav/Q9. That's the simple stuff. More complex uses involve melee, using him as a launcher to pull reinforcements immediately to the front lines, allowing for earlier attacks than normal Barge-into-Battle-ish along with the obvious advantage of holding a hill.
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  #103  
Old December 11th, 2019, 12:52 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

I could see him definitely be used to protect Raelin, Major Q9, Braxas/Nilfeheim, or any other ranged unique hero/squad. 90 points as is might be too cheap. Someone needs to play him with all A+ units (Raelin, Major Q9, Deathreavers) against Melee powerhouses (Knights or Heavy Gruts) to see his maximum value.
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  #104  
Old December 11th, 2019, 03:38 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

OP updated with the revised Tether of Logos.

We still need to re-run the checklist with that change in account, right?
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  #105  
Old December 11th, 2019, 03:40 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

I think so. If we are voting for editing for me.
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  #106  
Old December 11th, 2019, 05:23 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
We still need to re-run the checklist with that change in account, right?
I actually haven't run it at all yet. Hopefully today or tomorrow.
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  #107  
Old December 11th, 2019, 07:16 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Thanks to all for being willing to adjust based on Editing challenges. Let's give this a run.

Quote:
TETHER OF LOGOS
If a small or medium figure moves at least one space and ends its movement within 3 clear sight spaces of Dienekes, if it is no more than 3 levels above Dienekes's height or 3 levels below his base, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 7 or higher, place that figure on any same-level space adjacent to Dienekes. If the figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

COMBAT CHALLENGE
If an opponent's figure that is adjacent to Dienekes attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack a figure with the Combat Challenge special power.
General Checklist:

1. Are we recycling a unit name? No

2. Are we recycling a power name? No, Combat Challenge is an existing power.

3. If we are reusing an existing power, is the wording exactly the same? No, because Combat Challenge is a poorly-written power. We have reworded it to make it work.

4. What happens when the powers are negated (Rod of Negation, Exploit Weakness)? If affected by Rod of Negation, Dienekes could not use Tether of Logos, nor would Combat Challenge prevent adjacent figures from attacking other figures. Exploit Weakness could allow the attacker to target a different adjacent enemy figure even if engaged with Dienekes. Do any powers continue to have effects after being negated? No Is this clear from the wording?

5. Should the powers affect destructible objects? Tether of Logos cannot affect a DO because they do not have sizes. I'm not entirely certain about Combat Challenge for a theoretical DO that could attack, but since it's an official power we don't need to solve that.

6. Do any of the powers unintentionally synergize with other players' units? Dienekes could help reposition figures, but that is intentional. Combat Challenge could protect another player's units from a 3rd player, but that is also intentional.

7. Do the powers allow turn stacking? No

8. Are any of the powers conditional on a future event? No Is that future event inevitable or avoidable?

9. Does it have a d20 power? Yes If is a small, medium, or large Hero, how does it interact with Mystic Sacrifice? Mystic Sacrifice could be used to increase the d20 roll if Myrradin is close enough to Dienekes. If it is Tricky, how does it interact with Queen of Thieves? N/A If it is Undead, how does it interact with Curse of the Mummy? N/A

10. Do the powers create out-of-turn attacks? No

11. Are any powers conditional on the source of damage? No

12. Are any powers expected to work after all figures have been destroyed? No If so, is that clearly worded? How does it interact with revivals, via Glyph of Sturla or otherwise?

13. Do any powers that decrease attack or defense dice introduce a new minimum value (other than zero)? No

14. Do any powers change a Range value from 3 or less to 4 or greater or vice versa? No

15. Do any powers act unexpectedly in multiplayer games? No

16. Do any powers place other figures on this card? No If so, how does it interact with other place-on-card powers (Animated Materiel, Cling, Dwarven Gunners, Warriors Armor Spirit, Warriors Attack Spirit, Warrior's Swiftness Spirit, Necromancy)?

17. Does a power trigger off of an Order Marker being revealed on another Army Card? No If so, is the power expected to trigger if all figures associated with that Army Card have been destroyed?

18. Is it clear which powers are mandatory and which are optional? Tether of Logos is clearly optional. Combat Challenge is clearly mandatory.

19. How do the powers interact with the Marro Hive? Nothing special.

20. If the unit is a Soulborg squad who follows Jandar, how do the powers interact with Directed Fire? N/A

21. Does any power's name or wording unintentionally prohibit the power's reusability? Tether of Logos is a very specific name, but it's not much of a reusable power.

22. Does the text fit reasonably well on a card? Yes Use this tool to check: https://www.heroscapers.com/xorlof/x2cc.


Capitalization Checklist:

Named Special Power
size
height


Style Checklist:

1. Species is always singular for Heroes and plural for Squads, except Human and Soulborg are always singular. "Human" is singular.

2. Class is always singular for Heroes and plural for Squads. "Fighter" is singular.

3. For Heroes with a name like {name} the {optional adjective} {noun}, use the full name for the first instance in each power description, and only the first {name} thereafter. N/A

4. Single-space, not single-spaced; double-space, not double-spaced. N/A

5. Always add 's' after an apostrophe for a singular possessive, even if the possessor ends in 's' or 'z'. "Dienekes's" is correct.

6. Special attacks should have a newline between the Range/Attack line and the description. N/A


Unique Card Checklist:

1. How does it interact with Enslave/Moon Frenzy? Nothing special.

2. How does it interact with Mind Shackle/Soul Devour? Nothing special.


Defense Power Checklist:

1. Does it work against special attacks? Yes If so, how does it interact with every special attack in the game (listed here)? Take careful note of interaction with multi-figure special attacks like Encircle Special Attack. Combat Challenge is rather messy with special attacks, but it's an official power so we don't need to deal with it.

2. How does it interact with multi-normal attack powers, such as Hydra Heads, Flail Hurricane, Autocannons, and Two Heads are Better Than One? If adjacent, all such attacks must go on Dienekes or another figure with Combat Challenge as long as they remain adjacent.

3. How does it interact with Eagle Claw? Nothing special.

4. How does it interact with Lumbering Bully/WHOMP!? Nothing special.

5. How does it interact with Knockback/Ramming? Nothing special.

6. How does it interact with Poison Weapons/Mortal Strike/Whetstone of Venom? Nothing special.

7. How does it interact with Maul/Lethal Sting/Venomous Sting? Nothing special.

8. How does it interact with Paralyzing Stare/Whip? Nothing special.

9. How does it interact with Net Trip? Nothing special.

10. How does it interact with Life Drain/Life Transfer Aura/Sanguine Sword? Nothing special.

11. How does it interact with Bloodlust/Demonblade? Nothing special.

12. How does it interact with Tactical Switch? Nothing special.

13. How does it interact with Zombies Rise Again/Zombie Rises Again/Bloodborn Rising? Nothing special.

14. How does it interact with Reckless Second Swing? If Dienekes survives the first swing, the second swing must also target a figure with Combat Challenge.

15. How does it interact with powers that reduce defense dice? Nothing special.

16. How does it interact with Furious Wrath/Engorge? Nothing special.

17. How does it interact with Shocking Grasp/Breaching Scythe/Master's Strike? Nothing special.

18. How does it interact with Clear Shot? Nothing special.

19. How does it interact with Upgrade? Nothing special.

20. How does it interact with Finishing Blow? Nothing special.

21. How does it interact with Cling? Nothing special.

22. How does it interact with Lycanthropy? Nothing special.

23. How does it interact with Cleave/Skewer? Another figure can be affected by Cleave/Skewer, but the figure being attacked must be Dienekes or another with Combat Challenge if adjacent.

24. How does it interact with Taste of Blood? Nothing special.

25. How does it interact with Crushing Grasp? Nothing special.

26. How does it interact with Revenant's Tome? The figure resurrected by Revenant's Tome can ignore Combat Challenge.


Movement Power Checklist:

1. Does it allow leaving engagement attacks? No

2. How does it interact with Engagement Strike/Ice Spikes/Braced Spear? Moving a figure with Tether of Logos can trigger these powers.

3. How does it interact with Slippery? Figures moved by Tether of Logos can trigger Slippery.

4. How does it interact with Cyberclaw/Improved Cyberclaw? Figures affected by Cyberclaw cannot be moved by Tether of Logos.

5. How does it interact with Swirling Vortex? Tether of Logos ignores Swirling Vortex.

6. Is there any way the figure can be forced to end its movement on an illegal space? No

7. Is it a space-by-space move power, or a teleport-like place power? Teleport-like Is it clear in the power which one it is? Yes

8. How does it interact with bonus movement powers, such as Movement Bonding or Jandar's Dispatch? Tether of Logos can affect figures moved by bonus movement powers.

9. How does it interact with Shield Push? Tether of Logos can affect figures moved by Shield Push.

10. How does it interact with Maneuver? N/A

11. How does it interact with Steadfast? Steadfast can prevent the use of Tether of Logos.

12. How does it interact with Flying/Stealth Flying? Nothing special.

13. How does it interact with Levitation? Nothing special.


Triggered Power Checklist:

Movement Triggered Powers:

1. Can it force a figure to end its movement on an illegal space? No

2. Should all movement/placing powers trigger it? Consider Cling as well. They do trigger it, as long as the figure moves at least one space and ends its movement within range of Tether of Logos.

3. Can a figure that moves zero spaces trigger it? Figures do not have to declare they are moving zero until the attack phase. No

4. If triggered by a figure ending its movement, how does it interact with Swamp Water Tunnel/Water Tunnel/Leaping Assault? These are a bit tricky. Swamp Water Tunnel and Water Tunnel happen "immediately", which would happen before Tether of Logos. Technically both Water Tunnel and Tether would be triggered, but it seems natural that if the figure Tunnels away it would prevent Tether. I would be ok R&Cing that. Leaping Assault does not have an "immediately," but it occurs "after moving and before attacking," which can fairly be argued takes place after "ending its movement." The question, then, is whether the Tether of Logos movement would count towards the "if Kon-Tar-Na moved less than 4 spaces." I guess a literal reading would be that the Tether movement would count as one space, regardless of distance. Again, I'm happy with just an R&C, but we should decide exactly what the interaction should be.

5. If triggered by a figure ending its movement, how does it interact with Barge Into Battle? As above, I would argue that "after moving and before attacking" would come after "ends its movement." Thus, Tether would be used before Barge into Battle, and could prevent its use.
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  #108  
Old December 11th, 2019, 08:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Editing

Kon-Tar-Na is large, right? So we (luckily) don't need a ruling for how many spaces Tether of Logos adds to his movement.

Otherwise, I'm happy with making a blanket ruling that Tether activates before non-immediately "after moving" powers.
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