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AotP Blender A place to discuss AotP customs and ways to integrate Heroscape with AotP.


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  #13  
Old March 18th, 2018, 07:26 PM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

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Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
Great point on "Lifelink" and once again I truly like having more than 1 life for squads anyway. I always felt with the classic Heroscape squads during a match you would lose out on some of the abilities of squads due to their one life. Fantastic idea on "Haste" with disengage. I am going to play test those figures with "Haste" adding in that they don't take leaving engagement attacks.
Yes these guys with more than one life really have unique abilities. Just think of some special abilities. Tok Lu Na (the 220 point Marro) would need to stop its trample stomp because this squad has 2 life. Other auto wound abilities are hindered by these guys as well. Maybe due to them having 2 life we need to raise their point values.

Yes when I first read haste it seems like it doesn't help most of the time because if you want to attack first and then move like I said if you don't take out the figure you then waste your move or take a leaving engagement attack.

To keep it a separate ability without giving them disengage lets say something like: "Haste: This/these figures may choose to attack before they move. If they do so they do not take leaving engagement attacks from figures they are engaged with at the start of their turn." This can be reworded.

Doing this does not give them disengage from everyone and activates only when they choose to attack first and then move causing a leaving engagement attack to trigger.

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  #14  
Old March 19th, 2018, 11:14 AM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

Here is a suggestion that I have for "Haste": "Haste: Blazing Firecats may attack either before or after moving. If a Blazing Firecat attacks prior to moving and the defending figure was not destroyed it will not take a leaving engagement attack from that figure or any other enemy figures adjacent to this Blazing Firecat. This may only be used once per round." Naturally, this would be the same for Mad Prophet simply replacing his name with theirs.
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Old March 19th, 2018, 12:32 PM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

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Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
Here is a suggestion that I have for "Haste": "Haste: Blazing Firecats may attack either before or after moving. If a Blazing Firecat attacks prior to moving and the defending figure was not destroyed it will not take a leaving engagement attack from that figure or any other enemy figures adjacent to this Blazing Firecat. This may only be used once per round." Naturally, this would be the same for Mad Prophet simply replacing his name with theirs.
Perfect, exactly what I was looking for. I like what you added at the end, it makes it seem more like Haste in Magic, which is a one-time effect, but has made its way into Heroscape. I think it's good now.

Now to attempt to fix another issue: Lifelink. It seems the only thing we do not like about this is it changes a squad to act more like a hero and it avoids lots of abilities by being a multi-life squad. To fix this we could add an ability to the end of Lifelink to read: "Lifelink: When attacking with X, remove 1 wound from it for each wound it inflicts on the defending figure. Whenever X is targeted and received an automatic wound from any special power or ability give it one more of those wounds."

This could be added to any squads with the lifelink power and not added to heroes to not give them any other advantage over other squads and to avoid creating another sub class of creature while keeping heroes with lifelink still viable.

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  #16  
Old March 19th, 2018, 09:53 PM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

The Malakir Bloodchasers are the only ones with Lifelink and they only have 2 lives. I don't feel that Lifelink is an issue. Based on my initial play testing it seems to work well without making them being to Hero like. It would be nice to see how others feel once they play test them. For now I would say keep it as is.
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  #17  
Old March 20th, 2018, 08:36 AM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

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Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
The Malakir Bloodchasers are the only ones with Lifelink and they only have 2 lives. I don't feel that Lifelink is an issue. Based on my initial play testing it seems to work well without making them being to Hero like. It would be nice to see how others feel once they play test them. For now I would say keep it as is.
I had to check the cards and remember Sorin does NOT have lifelink and it s called a different ability. This was my reasoning for changing the ability but as is given they are the only ones with it and no one else has it they seem good for me too. I can't wait to get my sets of these and try them for myself.

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  #18  
Old March 21st, 2018, 09:07 PM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
I have been play testing SIEGE's converted cards over the past week and a half. Great cards and I feel as a whole they work great with classic heroscape. One key thing that is unbalanced is the fact that the AoTP squads have more than 1 life. For me I like having squads with more than 1 life, but unfortunately its not balanced when playing with official squads that only have 1 life. Below are my additional comments about some of the cards.

Necro-Alchemist: "It Works" special power is way overpowered. It has the potential of having an attack value of 10 using all three "Charge Markers" and having height advantage. My suggestion would be to word it as follows: "It Works - Before taking a turn with Necro-Alchemist, you may remove 1 Charge Marker from this card. If you do add 2 attack dice to Necro-Alchemist's attack.

Sorin Markov: "Vampiric Thirst" suggest changing to "Each time Sorin Markov destroys a figure, you may remove 2 wound markers from this Army Card. Sorin Markov cannot use Vampiric Thirst on destructible objects, Soulborgs, or Constructs."

Goblin Javelineers: "Volatile Hedron Javelins" suggest changing to "After moving and before attacking you choose a Goblin Javelineer you control and an opponent's figure within 6 clear sight spaces of the chosen Goblin Javelineer. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-3, the Goblin Javlineer receives 1 wound. If you roll a 4-15, the opponent's figure receives 1 wound. If you roll a 16 or higher, the opponent's figure receives 2 wounds." It just does not make sense that this would only affect small and medium opponent's figures.

Avacynian Inquisitors: This one is simple there is a word missing. Add "that" in between "control" and "does" on their "In Avacyn's Name" special power.

Nahiri: "Pass Through Stone" special power suggest removing "small or medium". Once again it does not make sense that only small or medium figures are affected by this special power.

Arlinn Kord: "Archmages' Assault" special power suggest removing "small or medium". Same reasoning as before.

Mad Prophet: "Insistent Ravings" simply need to change "When attack a Hero figure" to "When attacking a Hero figure".

Blighted Reavers: "Necrotic Stench" suggest the following "All figures that are not Undead, Soulborgs, or Constructs within 2 clear sight spaces of any Blighted Reaver subtracts 2 from their defense.

Eldrazi Ruiner: "Lash of Tentacles" suggest removing small or medium for the same reasoning as before.

Truly enjoyed these card conversions and plan on trying to make a balanced way of adding the spell cards from the AoTP game. Love the added influx of both Valkrill and Aquilla cards. Think you SIEGE nailed the alignments of the cards to the various generals.
@gatormustang: I really appreciate the playtesting and great feedback you provided. In short, I agree with all of it and will update the cards accordingly.

Necro-Alchemist: "It Works": I had concerns about this being overpowered. My main concern was keeping the rate of gaining Charge Markers the same as in a standard AotP game. I like the suggestion to limit it to one Charge Marker per attack. That makes the rate gain less of an issue and is more balanced.

Sorin Markov: "Vampiric Thirst": Great idea. This would make it thematically and mechanically similar to Cyprein’s Life Drain ability.


Typos: Good catch on the typos. I will fix those.

Blighted Reavers: "Necrotic Stench": Another good change thematically and mechanically. AtoP does not have Soulborgs but it would make sense that this not affect Soulborgs or Constructs.

Small and Medium figures:

My reason for tagging these abilities with only affecting small or medium figures was to safeguard the Deathwalkers since they only have 1 Life and these abilities can take them out easily. As I was typing this up, I was about to say that most special abilities that dish out wounds and bypass defense only affect small or medium figures, so this would be following a design standard. However, I double checked and there are actually much fewer abilities like this than I thought. There are actually quite a few special abilities that can dish out wounds to even large and huge figures.

I agree with you that thematically the small and medium restriction does not make sense in these cases and considering I was mistaken about this design point, I think it would be best remove this restriction.

I am still concerned about how this impacts the Deathwalkers but I think most of the abilities are not too damaging. Most are d20 luck based or require the figure to move in close, so the Deathwalkers at least have a turn or two to respond. The only ones I think are too lethal to them are Archmage’s Assault and Volatile Hedron Javelins because of the range and high success chance. Thoughts or suggestions?

Squads with More than one Life:

I agree that I like the idea of squads with more than one life especially for Unique squads because it makes them stand out. Are they unbalanced because their survivability is too high compared to 1 Life squads? How do multi-life squads compare to Heroes? Just how unbalanced are they?

In thinking this through I think multi-life squads work in AotP because there are a lot of auto-wound special abilities and spell cards, so their higher survivability is countered by more successful damage output. If you remove the auto-wounding cards and abilities (as Heroscape and this AotP conversion do), suddenly multi-life squads dominate. If you remove auto-wounding, you also need to remove multiple lives on squads.

I was concerned that dropping every squad down to one life would hurt their survivability too much and throw off their point values, but it seems like if auto-wounding is removed, then multiple lives on squads can be removed safely for the most part. I think something will still need changed to balance them. Maybe adding +1 defense for every 1 Life removed would be the right solution after all? Some squads would probably need to be made common. I am thinking of the Rhox Veterans in particular. Any thoughts or suggestions?


Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbuzzi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
Here is a suggestion that I have for "Haste": "Haste: Blazing Firecats may attack either before or after moving. If a Blazing Firecat attacks prior to moving and the defending figure was not destroyed it will not take a leaving engagement attack from that figure or any other enemy figures adjacent to this Blazing Firecat. This may only be used once per round." Naturally, this would be the same for Mad Prophet simply replacing his name with theirs.
Perfect, exactly what I was looking for. I like what you added at the end, it makes it seem more like Haste in Magic, which is a one-time effect, but has made its way into Heroscape. I think it's good now.
I love this idea for Haste allowing a one-time disengage. Interestingly, when my friends and I first learned to play Heroscape when it first came out, we thought you could move or attack in any order for all figures (except for when an ability said “After moving and before attacking”, then you had to move first). So the concept of attacking and hoping you destroyed the figure so you could move without a leaving engagement attack is not new to me. We thought it was part of the default metagame. Still, allowing a one-time disengage makes this a much more useful and fun ability. Definitely adding this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
Just caught up on this thread. Great stuff appreciate the time you put in to converting AoTP to Heroscape. I plan on play testing these over the next couple of weeks to see how well they work with the official units. C3G did some great work on spell cards for C3G units with the "Magical Defense" special power. Once I play test your converted cards I would like to try and incorporate the AoTP spells in to something balanced for the Planes Walkers like what C3G has done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TREX View Post
Great looking cards. With the price drop on the planeswalkers I assume the spell cards wont get used? I like the route you went with generals you chose to convert them to. I kind of like having squads with more than 1 life each with them being unique. Good job.
@TREX: For now the spell cards are not used. I have not decided yet how to approach converting the spell cards mainly because there are so many of them and there are a larger number that do not easily translate to Heroscape. I think there is potential, and I would hate to see the spell cards not utilized with Heroscape when the figures and terrain from AotP can be utilized with Heroscape so easily. I think the rules for spell cards would be similar to C3G’s spells cards as a starting point for drafting and casting. Then blend in AotP’s rules, including things like:

1. Up to 200 points in your army can be allocated to spell cards.
2. Only figures with the Planeswalker special ability can cast spells. This would be similar to Magical Defense in that it identifies what figures can cast spells and what color cards they can cast.

I think this would be fun to work on next. @Gatormustang, if you get started on this project before I do, I would be happy to help.


Thanks everyone for the compliments and feedback. I plan to implement a lot of the changes discussed here because it will make the figures more balanced and fun to play which is always good.

Last edited by SIEGE; March 21st, 2018 at 09:27 PM.
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  #19  
Old March 22nd, 2018, 08:22 AM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

I'm not going to quote all that but will respond to all. About the Volatile Hedron Javelins there is a high range and high rate of success here but I think I have come up with a solution. Lots of MtG style abilities that sounds as such typically will destroy the figure being thrown. Instead of a 1-3 roll giving the goblin a wound you destroy it regardless if you inflict a wound or not. Sure it's a very good attack but with that drawback it might be balanced. Archmage's assault is much more devastating. Perhaps give it a squad figure or keep its small or medium restriction. I'm comparing these abilities to the Black Wurmling's special attack. It has a relatively good chance of success and decent range with a total of 10 threat range. I would say with these restrictions this would be on par with the wurmling's special. Thoughts on the change?

Now squads with more than 1 life. Unfortunately I cannot comment on this fully as I haven't playtested but can tell you their addition is at least different than normal scape. I suppose their survive ability compared to their points would need to be looked at. Hey if anything if they work out it makes healers that much better and more playable. I like that idea but we need to make sure they aren't over surviveable taking their point cost into consideration. this is keeping them the same. Now if we were to change them I think we could get a few answers on comparing the basic and advanced game in scape. That changes multi life to single life by adding defense we can figure out how they did it, maybe +1 defense for every life as shown or maybe a different way. We can try that and see how i plays out. I'm somewhat against doing this as it would change too much especially the lifelink discussion we had, no more lifelink.

Thanks for liking the haste idea. For the spell cards I think it's easiest to just give planeswalkers the magical defense special ability. This way they can use spell cards from C3G and vice versa. If you wish to keep it separate we can just have a different ability and make sure each card specifically states that that spell card can only be used by figures with X ability.

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  #20  
Old March 22nd, 2018, 10:42 PM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIEGE View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
I have been play testing SIEGE's converted cards over the past week and a half. Great cards and I feel as a whole they work great with classic heroscape. One key thing that is unbalanced is the fact that the AoTP squads have more than 1 life. For me I like having squads with more than 1 life, but unfortunately its not balanced when playing with official squads that only have 1 life. Below are my additional comments about some of the cards.

Necro-Alchemist: "It Works" special power is way overpowered. It has the potential of having an attack value of 10 using all three "Charge Markers" and having height advantage. My suggestion would be to word it as follows: "It Works - Before taking a turn with Necro-Alchemist, you may remove 1 Charge Marker from this card. If you do add 2 attack dice to Necro-Alchemist's attack.

Sorin Markov: "Vampiric Thirst" suggest changing to "Each time Sorin Markov destroys a figure, you may remove 2 wound markers from this Army Card. Sorin Markov cannot use Vampiric Thirst on destructible objects, Soulborgs, or Constructs."

Goblin Javelineers: "Volatile Hedron Javelins" suggest changing to "After moving and before attacking you choose a Goblin Javelineer you control and an opponent's figure within 6 clear sight spaces of the chosen Goblin Javelineer. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-3, the Goblin Javlineer receives 1 wound. If you roll a 4-15, the opponent's figure receives 1 wound. If you roll a 16 or higher, the opponent's figure receives 2 wounds." It just does not make sense that this would only affect small and medium opponent's figures.

Avacynian Inquisitors: This one is simple there is a word missing. Add "that" in between "control" and "does" on their "In Avacyn's Name" special power.

Nahiri: "Pass Through Stone" special power suggest removing "small or medium". Once again it does not make sense that only small or medium figures are affected by this special power.

Arlinn Kord: "Archmages' Assault" special power suggest removing "small or medium". Same reasoning as before.

Mad Prophet: "Insistent Ravings" simply need to change "When attack a Hero figure" to "When attacking a Hero figure".

Blighted Reavers: "Necrotic Stench" suggest the following "All figures that are not Undead, Soulborgs, or Constructs within 2 clear sight spaces of any Blighted Reaver subtracts 2 from their defense.

Eldrazi Ruiner: "Lash of Tentacles" suggest removing small or medium for the same reasoning as before.

Truly enjoyed these card conversions and plan on trying to make a balanced way of adding the spell cards from the AoTP game. Love the added influx of both Valkrill and Aquilla cards. Think you SIEGE nailed the alignments of the cards to the various generals.
@gatormustang: I really appreciate the playtesting and great feedback you provided. In short, I agree with all of it and will update the cards accordingly.

Necro-Alchemist: "It Works": I had concerns about this being overpowered. My main concern was keeping the rate of gaining Charge Markers the same as in a standard AotP game. I like the suggestion to limit it to one Charge Marker per attack. That makes the rate gain less of an issue and is more balanced.

Sorin Markov: "Vampiric Thirst": Great idea. This would make it thematically and mechanically similar to Cyprein’s Life Drain ability.


Typos: Good catch on the typos. I will fix those.

Blighted Reavers: "Necrotic Stench": Another good change thematically and mechanically. AtoP does not have Soulborgs but it would make sense that this not affect Soulborgs or Constructs.

Small and Medium figures:

My reason for tagging these abilities with only affecting small or medium figures was to safeguard the Deathwalkers since they only have 1 Life and these abilities can take them out easily. As I was typing this up, I was about to say that most special abilities that dish out wounds and bypass defense only affect small or medium figures, so this would be following a design standard. However, I double checked and there are actually much fewer abilities like this than I thought. There are actually quite a few special abilities that can dish out wounds to even large and huge figures.

I agree with you that thematically the small and medium restriction does not make sense in these cases and considering I was mistaken about this design point, I think it would be best remove this restriction.

I am still concerned about how this impacts the Deathwalkers but I think most of the abilities are not too damaging. Most are d20 luck based or require the figure to move in close, so the Deathwalkers at least have a turn or two to respond. The only ones I think are too lethal to them are Archmage’s Assault and Volatile Hedron Javelins because of the range and high success chance. Thoughts or suggestions?

Squads with More than one Life:

I agree that I like the idea of squads with more than one life especially for Unique squads because it makes them stand out. Are they unbalanced because their survivability is too high compared to 1 Life squads? How do multi-life squads compare to Heroes? Just how unbalanced are they?

In thinking this through I think multi-life squads work in AotP because there are a lot of auto-wound special abilities and spell cards, so their higher survivability is countered by more successful damage output. If you remove the auto-wounding cards and abilities (as Heroscape and this AotP conversion do), suddenly multi-life squads dominate. If you remove auto-wounding, you also need to remove multiple lives on squads.

I was concerned that dropping every squad down to one life would hurt their survivability too much and throw off their point values, but it seems like if auto-wounding is removed, then multiple lives on squads can be removed safely for the most part. I think something will still need changed to balance them. Maybe adding +1 defense for every 1 Life removed would be the right solution after all? Some squads would probably need to be made common. I am thinking of the Rhox Veterans in particular. Any thoughts or suggestions?


Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbuzzi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
Here is a suggestion that I have for "Haste": "Haste: Blazing Firecats may attack either before or after moving. If a Blazing Firecat attacks prior to moving and the defending figure was not destroyed it will not take a leaving engagement attack from that figure or any other enemy figures adjacent to this Blazing Firecat. This may only be used once per round." Naturally, this would be the same for Mad Prophet simply replacing his name with theirs.
Perfect, exactly what I was looking for. I like what you added at the end, it makes it seem more like Haste in Magic, which is a one-time effect, but has made its way into Heroscape. I think it's good now.
I love this idea for Haste allowing a one-time disengage. Interestingly, when my friends and I first learned to play Heroscape when it first came out, we thought you could move or attack in any order for all figures (except for when an ability said “After moving and before attacking”, then you had to move first). So the concept of attacking and hoping you destroyed the figure so you could move without a leaving engagement attack is not new to me. We thought it was part of the default metagame. Still, allowing a one-time disengage makes this a much more useful and fun ability. Definitely adding this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatormustang View Post
Just caught up on this thread. Great stuff appreciate the time you put in to converting AoTP to Heroscape. I plan on play testing these over the next couple of weeks to see how well they work with the official units. C3G did some great work on spell cards for C3G units with the "Magical Defense" special power. Once I play test your converted cards I would like to try and incorporate the AoTP spells in to something balanced for the Planes Walkers like what C3G has done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TREX View Post
Great looking cards. With the price drop on the planeswalkers I assume the spell cards wont get used? I like the route you went with generals you chose to convert them to. I kind of like having squads with more than 1 life each with them being unique. Good job.
@TREX: For now the spell cards are not used. I have not decided yet how to approach converting the spell cards mainly because there are so many of them and there are a larger number that do not easily translate to Heroscape. I think there is potential, and I would hate to see the spell cards not utilized with Heroscape when the figures and terrain from AotP can be utilized with Heroscape so easily. I think the rules for spell cards would be similar to C3G’s spells cards as a starting point for drafting and casting. Then blend in AotP’s rules, including things like:

1. Up to 200 points in your army can be allocated to spell cards.
2. Only figures with the Planeswalker special ability can cast spells. This would be similar to Magical Defense in that it identifies what figures can cast spells and what color cards they can cast.

I think this would be fun to work on next. @Gatormustang, if you get started on this project before I do, I would be happy to help.


Thanks everyone for the compliments and feedback. I plan to implement a lot of the changes discussed here because it will make the figures more balanced and fun to play which is always good.
Now I understand your reasoning on attacks that affect "small or medium" figures. From the beginning the Deathwalkers have been some of my favorite figures even with only having 1 life. Let me make the following recommendations on my previous comments:

Nahiri - "Pass Through Stone" since a wound only occurs on a 20-sided die roll of 16-20 I feel this one still should affect any size figure.

Eldrazi Ruiner - "Lash of Tentacles" suggest the following: Before taking a turn with Eldrazi Ruiner, roll 1 attack die for each opponent's squad figure adjacent to Eldrazi Ruiner. If a skull is rolled the figure receives 1 wound. For each opponent's hero figure adjacent to Eldrazi Ruiner roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 16 or higher that figure receives 1 wound.

This is more in line with Grimnak's "CHOMP".

Arlinn Kord - "Archmage's Assault" suggest the following: After taking a turn with Arlinn Kord if she destroyed a figure this turn, you may choose a figure within 7 clear sight spaces of Arlinn Kord. If the chosen figure is a squad figure that figure receives 1 wound. If the chosen figure is a hero figure roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 16 or higher the chosen figure receives 1 wound.

This is more in line with Grimnak's "CHOMP".

Goblin Javelineers - "Volatile Hedron Javelins" suggest the following: After moving and before attacking you may choose a Goblin Javelineer you control and an opponent's figure within 6 clear sight spaces of the chosen Goblin Javelineer. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-3 the Goblin Javelineer receives 1 wound. If the chosen figure is a squad figure and you roll a 4 or higher the chosen figure receives 1 wound. If the chosen figure is a hero figure and you roll a 18 or higher the chosen figure receives 1 wound.

For multi life squads although slightly unbalanced my feeling is to keep them with having multiple lives. This way you can take advantage of abilities like "Lifelink".

For the spell cards I have already started to give them a lot of thought. There are a number of things that I am trying to work out. One is that I agree much like C3Gs implementation the AoTP spell cards should only be for casting by a Planeswalker. My problem here is that you would need to either change their race or class "Unique Hero" designation to Planeswalker. Thematically this gets a little off of classic Heroscape since there was never a class called Planeswalker. This in itself is not a big issue for me. In addition the spell cards as they stand are for their respective mana color. I need to think how would we change them in relation to being either Vydar, Utgar, Aquilla, Jandar, Einar, Valkril, or Ullar. Bottom line this is going to take quite a bit more thought.

Last edited by gatormustang; March 24th, 2018 at 10:50 AM.
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  #21  
Old March 24th, 2018, 10:59 PM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

Thank you again for the feedback and ideas, itsbuzzy and gatormustang. I updated the cards based on your input.

For the spell cards, I plan to think through some possible rules too. If I get any good ideas, I'll share them with you.

As for multi life squads, I think I have a solution. My theory is that AotP figures (both squads and heroes) have inflated Life values compared to Heroscape to account for the numerous auto-wound abilities present in AotP. Removing the auto-wounding abilities requires reducing the Life values slightly to account for this.

My solution is: Drop the Life of heroes with 6 or more Life by 1. Drop the Life of squads with 3 or 4 Life by 1.

Ghoul Vanguard is the only hero with 5 or less Life and losing 20% of its Life would hurt a lot. Dropping 2 Life squads down to 1 would hurt a lot too and would require changing Lifelink and would make the Malakir Bloodchasers not as special of a unit. I could see the argument for leaving the Kessig Rangers and Path Wardens at 3 Life since they are only 2 figure squads. I am unsure to leave them as is or reduce their Life by 1.

If you compare Jace (Mindmage) to Doctor Doom, both are similar figures. I did some number crunching and on average Doctor Doom will survive against 1 more attack than Jace will and he is more resistant to lower attack values. Jace's Mind Stealer ability is marginally better and his range is slightly better. For being close to equal figures, Jace is 105 points cheaper. If you drop his Life to 6, now Doctor Doom will survive against 2 more attacks on average. I still think the 105 point gap is a lot even if Jace has 6 Life, but at least that is more balanced.
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Old March 25th, 2018, 12:00 PM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

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Originally Posted by SIEGE View Post
Thank you again for the feedback and ideas, itsbuzzy and gatormustang. I updated the cards based on your input.

For the spell cards, I plan to think through some possible rules too. If I get any good ideas, I'll share them with you.

As for multi life squads, I think I have a solution. My theory is that AotP figures (both squads and heroes) have inflated Life values compared to Heroscape to account for the numerous auto-wound abilities present in AotP. Removing the auto-wounding abilities requires reducing the Life values slightly to account for this.

My solution is: Drop the Life of heroes with 6 or more Life by 1. Drop the Life of squads with 3 or 4 Life by 1.

Ghoul Vanguard is the only hero with 5 or less Life and losing 20% of its Life would hurt a lot. Dropping 2 Life squads down to 1 would hurt a lot too and would require changing Lifelink and would make the Malakir Bloodchasers not as special of a unit. I could see the argument for leaving the Kessig Rangers and Path Wardens at 3 Life since they are only 2 figure squads. I am unsure to leave them as is or reduce their Life by 1.

If you compare Jace (Mindmage) to Doctor Doom, both are similar figures. I did some number crunching and on average Doctor Doom will survive against 1 more attack than Jace will and he is more resistant to lower attack values. Jace's Mind Stealer ability is marginally better and his range is slightly better. For being close to equal figures, Jace is 105 points cheaper. If you drop his Life to 6, now Doctor Doom will survive against 2 more attacks on average. I still think the 105 point gap is a lot even if Jace has 6 Life, but at least that is more balanced.
I agree with changing some of the life costs of squads and heroes it seemed they are definitely inflated. However as you have said they can't go down too much.

As for the Jace vs Dr Doom that is a very important observation. It means that the point costs of the planeswalkers might already have their ability to use spells in their costs already as no other squads or heroes in AotP can use spells.

So if we use spells it seems we just need to look over the point costs of the planeswalkers to make sure they match including the ability to use spells. If we do this for the example you provided I would like if Jace's points were then more than Dr. Doom because they are similar like you say but Jace can cast spells. If for some reason we figure to not use spells we need to rethink their points or change their cards a bit more.

So far so good. I ordered all my sets and they should be coming in next week.

Keep doing what you're doing, but do it better. ~Self

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Old March 28th, 2018, 09:43 AM
PeasantDave PeasantDave is offline
 
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

I just wanted to weigh in that the appealing part of this mod was dropping the spells entirely. Since several other blender projects are already using them. I trust the custom work of everyone in here though, since you all have more experience than me!

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Old March 28th, 2018, 10:10 AM
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Re: SIEGE's AotP Converted Customs

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Originally Posted by PeasantDave View Post
I just wanted to weigh in that the appealing part of this mod was dropping the spells entirely. Since several other blender projects are already using them. I trust the custom work of everyone in here though, since you all have more experience than me!
You know what you have a very valid point. The purpose of this was to convert these figures into Heroscape customs. Heroscape doesn't use spells. That would make our work much simpler. I think not including spells is a good idea.

Another idea I had because I finally am receiving my sets is can we make the cards the same size as the original AotP cards? It would still be able to be included and they have all the same information it'll just get confusing for me having two cards for the same figures. These new cards can be attached to the original cards on the back because there is no information on the back. Just a thought.

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