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  #121  
Old July 11th, 2021, 12:23 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

Trading playtests could be another good avenue to pursue, though if the reason that some units aren't getting many playtests is just because people don't want to play with them, then we might need to rethink some things.

I share Capt. Stupendous' concerns about wanting existing pod members to feel important, albeit the system is really set up to have 7 different votes, when none of our pods are hitting those numbers right now. In any case, I'd want to stress that the goal of adding members to pods is not to redesign units, but to finish them. I think that the majority of our designs are in a pretty nice place, and I really don't want to undo any work. Unless the design is showing major flaws in Testing or something, then I think that adding the PLs should just be used to close out the design with enough activity to keep the project moving. This also was the original plan to ensure that pods are completed, but I'm fine with ensuring that the remaining active members don't mind the help. The Pod Main Threads would be a good place to do a status check and discuss on a pod-by-pod basis if members want the extra help.
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  #122  
Old July 15th, 2021, 09:34 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Before adding the Pod Lead team to a pod, I'd prefer for the existing pod members to vote on whether they'd like to add the rest of us or not
This works for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
In any case, I'd want to stress that the goal of adding members to pods is not to redesign units, but to finish them. I think that the majority of our designs are in a pretty nice place, and I really don't want to undo any work. Unless the design is showing major flaws in Testing or something, then I think that adding the PLs should just be used to close out the design with enough activity to keep the project moving.
This is absolutely, 100% the intent.


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  #123  
Old July 25th, 2021, 03:15 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

Will all the figures be on their cards unpainted? I would probably paint mine either way depending on the unit. I was just wondering if there was going to be official paint jobs for some minis like C3G & C3V have done before. There could be a painted and unpainted version of each card on units that needed paint.

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  #124  
Old July 25th, 2021, 03:50 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tmac2200 View Post
Will all the figures be on their cards unpainted? I would probably paint mine either way depending on the unit. I was just wondering if there was going to be official paint jobs for some minis like C3G & C3V have done before. There could be a painted and unpainted version of each card on units that needed paint.
Hey there Tmac! Right now, our plan is to only develop units that are either prepainted, or look good in their unpainted form (translucent red firecats, black shadow creatures, etc.).

You can see the full list of the miniatures we are using here: https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...37&postcount=2

And feel free to take a look and drop a comment in any of the threads. As a project we really appreciate the community's input!
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  #125  
Old August 26th, 2021, 08:37 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

@Astroking112 @NecroBlade @Scytale @flameslayer93

Tagging all the current pod leads to propose a change to our process. Currently, designs can't enter playtesting until after going through the Editing process. I think the editing process is very important, both in guaranteeing the quality of designs and increasing the legitimacy of the project as a whole (especially in terms of VC compatibility). However, I'm not sure it still makes sense to hold playtesting until after the checklist has been run, given the current backlog of designs waiting in editing (Alabaster Sentinels entered editing February 1, and Katryn Vade entered editing February 26).

What I'd propose is that, if the checklist hasn't been run within 2 weeks of a design entering Editing, the design will proceed to the Playtesting phase, and the title of the thread changed to reflect that design's unedited status. So, the thread title for the Alabaster Sentinels would read: [Pod 2] Alabaster Sentinels (Rhox Veterans) - Playtesting (Unedited).

The design would still need to pass the checklist before leaving Playtesting, but at least this way designs wouldn't be stalled out for 6+ months before officially entering the playtesting phase.

I realize this solution isn't ideal, and there's the chance that Editing might reveal a significant flaw in a design after a significant amount of playtesting has already occurred. However, I think at this point I'm willing to take that risk if it means maintaining momentum on designs.
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  #126  
Old August 28th, 2021, 09:01 AM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

I'm ok with this to give us a broader ability to playtest (though personally my constraint is the ability to keep something set up at home). I think someone running the checklist when they can is fine as well. Should we couple this with adding all PLs to all current units? Then maybe we can collectively, systematically tackle one unit at a time? There are some minor syngeries here and there, but largely it doesn't matter too much the order in which units get 'finalized'.


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  #127  
Old September 1st, 2021, 07:22 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

Some quick updates before delving into Capt. S' proposal:
  • I should now have editing privileges in this subforum. This should make it easier to maintain momentum and keep threads up-to-date even with many of the older Pod Leads having left.
  • I plan to create prototype cards for every unit in Playtesting and put them in the OP. This change is a bit overdue to be honest and admittedly more of an aesthetic quirk, but I think that it will help to visualize the project and had many prototype cards created already anyway.
  • I'm also planning to add synergies for every unit in Playtesting, to make armybuilding easier to follow. This should also improve the process a bit: some people like @Blue Trails have caught synergies like the Honored Soul-Guides and Sir Gilbert that I don't think were fully considered before. Making synergies publicly stated makes omissions easier to spot and intended roles clearer.
  • Life's a bit hectic on my end right now, so the above two bullets are unlikely to occur very soon, but I'm hopeful that everything can be set up in the near future.
With that out of the way...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
@Astroking112 @NecroBlade @Scytale @flameslayer93

Tagging all the current pod leads to propose a change to our process. Currently, designs can't enter playtesting until after going through the Editing process. I think the editing process is very important, both in guaranteeing the quality of designs and increasing the legitimacy of the project as a whole (especially in terms of VC compatibility). However, I'm not sure it still makes sense to hold playtesting until after the checklist has been run, given the current backlog of designs waiting in editing (Alabaster Sentinels entered editing February 1, and Katryn Vade entered editing February 26).

What I'd propose is that, if the checklist hasn't been run within 2 weeks of a design entering Editing, the design will proceed to the Playtesting phase, and the title of the thread changed to reflect that design's unedited status. So, the thread title for the Alabaster Sentinels would read: [Pod 2] Alabaster Sentinels (Rhox Veterans) - Playtesting (Unedited).

The design would still need to pass the checklist before leaving Playtesting, but at least this way designs wouldn't be stalled out for 6+ months before officially entering the playtesting phase.

I realize this solution isn't ideal, and there's the chance that Editing might reveal a significant flaw in a design after a significant amount of playtesting has already occurred. However, I think at this point I'm willing to take that risk if it means maintaining momentum on designs.
This is very persuasive, and I do think that it would be good to help maintain momentum. My primary concern is that some types of designs or mechanics might inherently not work--things like being able to attack out of turn, certain types of reactions to Special Attacks, et cetera--and Scytale is undoubtedly the best at catching that.

Given that Pod Leaders must move designs forward, though, I think that I'd be okay with changing up our procedure to allow for more immediate playtesting after a design is ready, so long as a careful eye is kept on any potential interactions like this. The hope would be that between so much collaboration, Public Feedback, and the second Design pass, pretty much every kink has been ironed out and any mechanical changes ensuing from Editing would be fairly minor and incur just a bit more testing.

I would like to hear from Scytale on this as well, though; my thought is that this might save him more time to avoid potentially multiple editing passes if something changes in playtesting, but he could very well disagree and have a preference for the current (or a different) order.
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  #128  
Old September 2nd, 2021, 11:45 AM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

Honestly, I didn't realize I had units to edit, certainly not ones that have been sitting around a while. A downside to not having a formal process with distinct subforums.

I don't mind stuff being playtested before edited, but I find it fairly likely that designs will see changes at the editing phase. While there are some VC sanctum members in here, a lot of those here aren't and are not as familiar with rules pitfalls and how to rework powers to best fit into the core system. That said, those changes won't often be huge ones.
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  #129  
Old September 5th, 2021, 02:09 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
[*]I plan to create prototype cards for every unit in Playtesting and put them in the OP. This change is a bit overdue to be honest and admittedly more of an aesthetic quirk, but I think that it will help to visualize the project and had many prototype cards created already anyway.
[*]I'm also planning to add synergies for every unit in Playtesting, to make armybuilding easier to follow. This should also improve the process a bit: some people like @Blue Trails have caught synergies like the Honored Soul-Guides and Sir Gilbert that I don't think were fully considered before. Making synergies publicly stated makes omissions easier to spot and intended roles clearer.
To point 1, I made some (mediocre) playtesting cards a while back and updated them recently enough that I believe they're current. If it would help, I can double-check and upload them sometime.

Point 2 is good as well. If I find time for it, I can try to help out with this, too.


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  #130  
Old September 8th, 2021, 12:34 AM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Honestly, I didn't realize I had units to edit, certainly not ones that have been sitting around a while. A downside to not having a formal process with distinct subforums.
Sorry about that; I knew that you've been busy with C3V stuff and didn't want to pester you further about these.

Is there something that you would like to change about our process? I think that we should definitely be open to changing things to smoothen everything out--I'm not sure if we need subforums for each phase of the process like C3V has, given that we typically limit our in-progress designs, but if that would make things easier, then it's definitely worth looking into. It's also worth noting that this problem will also get exacerbated as more units are finalized, unless we separated into at least an "In Progress" and a "Completed" section... At which point, it might be easier to go the full mile.

I do also maintain the Books of Index Thread pinned in this subforum with the status of each unit and a quick post whenever they change phases. If it would be preferable, I can lock that thread to where the only posts in it are status changes, making it easy to subscribe to.

Quote:
I don't mind stuff being playtested before edited, but I find it fairly likely that designs will see changes at the editing phase. While there are some VC sanctum members in here, a lot of those here aren't and are not as familiar with rules pitfalls and how to rework powers to best fit into the core system. That said, those changes won't often be huge ones.
I'd prefer for things to be edited before entering Playtesting as well if we can make it work, but we are helped slightly by the fact that each of the Pod Leaders have at least some experience with the checklist and common friction points for powers. I doubt that we'd catch everything (and I think that this would increase the number of tests necessary a bit since we'd then have to test any Editing changes), but we could catch a lot of the outright unworkable stuff like inflicting wounds to Special Attackers, attacking outside of the turn structure, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
To point 1, I made some (mediocre) playtesting cards a while back and updated them recently enough that I believe they're current. If it would help, I can double-check and upload them sometime.

Point 2 is good as well. If I find time for it, I can try to help out with this, too.
If you have the time and are able to help, then I'd definitely appreciate it. I can edit in any pre-built synergy lists or images very easily; it's the construction and identification process that takes a while.

I wasn't planning on spending much time on the playtesting cards; a quick grab from the X2 Card Creator with structured text from the OP was pretty much my plans.
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  #131  
Old September 11th, 2021, 04:34 PM
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Re: AOTV General Discussion

If you search AotV in the gallery, I uploaded what I currently have. Most if not all of them should be up-to-date. Ozuul is actually the single-power version, and I will need to make the card for the new Honored Soul-Guides.


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