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  #16537  
Old June 29th, 2015, 08:26 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

And there it is, it was only a matter of time before it came.

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  #16538  
Old June 29th, 2015, 08:39 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

So of the all the newer versions of the ones designed Batman, Cyborg, Martin Manhunter, and Wonder Woman Green Arrow, what makes them poor designs?

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  #16539  
Old June 29th, 2015, 09:08 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

FWIW I don't think there's anything wrong with a Martian Manhunter 2 that has JL markers that work in a similar way to Avenger Markers for Ms. Marvel. It has the side benefit of not doubling up the marker synergy with MM's generalized all-hero synergy.

I appreciate the effort on the agglomerated personality/class synergies, but it would be a ton of effort to make it work that way. It's very cool to look at all it all put together like that, but it just proves to me that there are too many moving parts to really make a build that way. I was doing something similar with my recent Captain Britain design, but this is ~5 times as ambitious and doesn't really seem all that practical.
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  #16540  
Old June 29th, 2015, 09:23 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
FWIW I don't think there's anything wrong with a Martian Manhunter 2 that has JL markers that work in a similar way to Avenger Markers for Ms. Marvel. It has the side benefit of not doubling up the marker synergy with MM's generalized all-hero synergy.
See, I don't see the harm in exactly that. The issue is, we have some saying "no markers", some saying "markers", and some saying "just enjoy them as they are".

I see no reason we can't have:

Martian Manhunter

JUSTICE LEAGUE INITIATIVE
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 6 other Unique Heroes you control and place a Justice League Marker on each of their cards. Before rolling initiative, you may add 1 to the roll for each figure you control on the battlefield with a Justice League Marker on their card.

TELEPATHIC MASTERY
While Martian Manhunter is in play, all figures you control with a Justice League Marker on its card are considered in clear sight of each other. In addition, Martian Manhunter does not require clear sight in order to attack enemy figures, and any adjacent figures you control with a Justice League Marker on its card may never be taken control of by an enemy figure.

Which sets up:

JUSTICE LEAGUE TACTICIAN
After revealing an OM on this card, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may instead take a turn with any other figure you control with a Justice League Marker on their card, as if you had just revealed the OM on that card.

JUSTICE LEAGUE WARRIOR
After taking a turn with a hero you control with a Justice League Marker on its card that is within 4 clear sight spaces of Wonder Woman, if that hero inflicted one or more wounds with their normal attack this turn, you may immediately attack once with Wonder Woman, if possible. You may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.

BOOM TUBE TRANSPORT
Instead of moving and attacking with Cyborg, you may choose a friendly figure adjacent to Cyborg. Place the chosen figure on an empty space up to 10 spaces away, 12 spaces away if the figure has a Justice League Marker on its card. After placing the chosen figure, you may choose to place Cyborg on an empty space adjacent to the chosen figure. Figures moved by this special power will not take any leaving engagement attacks and cannot be placed adjacent to any enemy figures. This special may not be used on the same figure more than once per round.

VIGILANT COVER
If a hero you control with a Justice League Marker that is within 8 clear sight spaces of Green Arrow rolls for a leaving engagement, and Green Arrow is not engaged, roll one additional die. You may only roll once per turn.

Last edited by Arkham; June 29th, 2015 at 09:39 PM.
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  #16541  
Old June 29th, 2015, 09:35 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

The easiest solution would be a simple Marker system. Which sets up other powers that build around them like you typed up, Justice League Warrior looks like it was missing a couple of words. I know people are against it since it would be copying the Avengers but since it's not boosting stats like The Avengers I don't see the harm. Plus if someone is going for a Justice League build, they are probably not planning on drafting any Marvel people.

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  #16542  
Old June 29th, 2015, 09:42 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

I would personally support the marker direction. I think it's the cleanest way to add the JLA and allows players to include all of their favorite JLAers. It will take a little bit of work to make sure it doesn't overlap too much with similar powers, but it really wouldn't be that hard.

However, if you're already planning to make second or third designs for a lot of the characters, another option is to just make those versions the JLA versions of the characters and give them a unique class so that they can easily be tied together. It would allow you to give them direct synergy in a cleaner and more unified approach.

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  #16543  
Old June 29th, 2015, 09:50 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsbush7690 View Post
The easiest solution would be a simple Marker system. Which sets up other powers that build around them like you typed up, Justice League Warrior looks like it was missing a couple of words. I know people are against it since it would be copying the Avengers but since it's not boosting stats like The Avengers I don't see the harm. Plus if someone is going for a Justice League build, they are probably not planning on drafting any Marvel people.
I understand why some are reluctant on adding more markers. It can lead to unbalanced combos that weren't present before. However, just logistically speaking, there's always a way to prevent that when given enough thought and effort.

Worried about Avengers + JLA team up? Is it taboo to put in a clause that states a figure cannot have an Avengers marker on its army card when placing Justice League Markers, if it's an issue?

We could also always have MM place only 3 JLA markers, and then give 2 to Wonder Woman, and 1 to Batman, so that it makes it nearly impossible to form a team of both effectively.

I think what's most important is that we stay weary of adding to attack or defense type bonuses from the markers, thus a combination with the Avengers wouldn't completely break anything. Having several characters with simple bonuses, making one great team when combined, is the goal, rather than 1 person delivering the goods.
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  #16544  
Old June 29th, 2015, 10:00 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
However, if you're already planning to make second or third designs for a lot of the characters, another option is to just make those versions the JLA versions of the characters and give them a unique class so that they can easily be tied together. It would allow you to give them direct synergy in a cleaner and more unified approach.
The issue here, is that we're wanting to make as few new versions as possible, just enough that feel like warranted to the characters being given them, and making sure they offer an addition to the synergy. So even if we gave them a class of "JLA" or something to that effect, there's around 30+ characters that could logically/thematically go in the JLA team, but won't be getting a new card.

I'd say the essentials would be Martian Manhunter, Batman, and Cyborg get new JLA themed cards. Wonder Woman would be nice, and we know TrollBrute has her on his radar, and he can certainly add to the synergy with the power listed, but if not, she could just rely on a marker from another to bring her into the fold. Green Arrow isn't absolutely necessary if we're going the marker system.

Martian Manhunter could either receive 3 JLA markers(which fits his initiative power), Batman 2(which fits his OM power), and Cyborg 1(which fits his Boom Tube power).

That would only make 3 characters receiving new versions. Martian Manhunter who has a lot of untapped ability, Batman who has been in discussions for years, and Cyborg who would have likely gotten a JLA version eventually anyways. Wonder Woman being a possibility if TB wants.
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  #16545  
Old June 29th, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

With only 3/4 potentially being remade it would be a lot simpler to make a sound JLA team that has synergy. 2 of the 3 or 4 would make for nice revaluations due to better representing the sides not already on their cards.

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  #16546  
Old June 29th, 2015, 10:15 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

A JL markers system would certainly make it easier to assemble any JL team from the comic pages. There seemed to be a lot of resistance to that idea though so we were trying to work with what we had. It also makes it more likely to find killer combos of units that have nothing to do with the JL when the synergy is completely open ended like that. That isn't a deal breaker for me, the Avengers Markers results in lots of weird teams led by CA, Ms. Marvel, and/or Wasp and Zemo had led many strange line-ups for the MoE. I was just trying to more closely tie the core 7-10 members together.

For me personally, I wasn't trying to make a bunch of new cards in order to make the JL team idea work but others have more ambitious ideas in that department and I wasn't going to stand in there way. I think just a Batman 3.0, Martian Manhunter 2.0, & Cyborg 2.0 would be enough for me if done properly. I'll post a framework for what I think those three cards could look like a little later on.
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  #16547  
Old June 29th, 2015, 10:22 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
A JL markers system would certainly make it easier to assemble any JL team from the comic pages. There seemed to be a lot of resistance to that idea though so we were trying to work with what we had. It also makes it more likely to find killer combos of units that have nothing to do with the JL when the synergy is completely open ended like that. That isn't a deal breaker for me, the Avengers Markers results in lots of weird teams led by CA, Ms. Marvel, and/or Wasp and Zemo had led many strange line-ups for the MoE. I was just trying to more closely tie the core 7-10 members together.

For me personally, I wasn't trying to make a bunch of new cards in order to make the JL team idea work but others have more ambitious ideas in that department and I wasn't going to stand in there way. I think just a Batman 3.0, Martian Manhunter 2.0, & Cyborg 2.0 would be enough for me if done properly. I'll post a framework for what I think those three cards could look like a little later on.
I think we're on the same page here, and had the same desires for the same reasons. Clearly we both enjoy certain characters, that for reasons stated before, just don't work together as a unit. So now, if we're going the marker route, let's single out those 3 designs and apply our focus into making them the best they can be in order to setup a solid JLA foundation going forward. If we set them up in the right way, and lay a solid foundation, moving forward with any future new designs of un-made JLA members, or potential new versions of JLA figures down the line, we'll have the appropriate system in place.

The question we have to ask ourselves at this point, is what role do we want Batman, Martian Manhunter, and Cyborg to play in order to make that foundation as solid as possible.
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  #16548  
Old June 29th, 2015, 10:26 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Martian Manhunter would make a good corner stone to get the ball rollling, Batman would be good at mixing up who is attacking and possibly getting an additional attack from someone and Cyborg would be a good transporter with his boom tube.

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