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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #37  
Old April 17th, 2017, 07:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

V brought this up when we were talking today, but Mesmerize could be an issue in balance terms, and it's certainly going to come in much higher than you project right now. We ran into this issue with Images of Ikonn. Avoiding an attack can easily be worth 40-50 points for a Magical Defense figure. Coming before the attack will bring it down some, but if the interaction with Mordo is in there, it's still going to come in fairly high. Not sure how you fell about that.

Also, if there is an interaction with Mordo, I don't think the spell necessarily needs to be tested first. We should make sure it's not too strong with another unit, but it can be tested alongside him like any design-specific glyphs are. So I'll hold off on voting for now.

As for Mordo himself, I like the design. Definitely think the anti-negation aspect can go because Strange seems a certainty to changed now. If you want to hold up a little while that gets sorted out though, I understand.

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  #38  
Old April 17th, 2017, 07:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

That last version you posted definitely doesn't fit on the card on the smallest of text settings and spacing that we allow, the last 2 words in Magical Defense are cut off. That's with the Flying and Superstrength symbols not on the card, which means it's not even close to being able to fit with them on.
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  #39  
Old April 17th, 2017, 08:06 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
That last version you posted definitely doesn't fit on the card on the smallest of text settings and spacing that we allow, the last 2 words in Magical Defense are cut off. That's with the Flying and Superstrength symbols not on the card, which means it's not even close to being able to fit with them on.
Okay, fair enough, it was a bit of a long shot anyway.

Going to really have to think about what TrollBrute said - I really have no idea what we're doing now, I wish someone had brought this stuff up earlier instead of waiting until I try to get the process moving... Looks like this guy may be on hold for a while.


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  #40  
Old April 17th, 2017, 08:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
That last version you posted definitely doesn't fit on the card on the smallest of text settings and spacing that we allow, the last 2 words in Magical Defense are cut off. That's with the Flying and Superstrength symbols not on the card, which means it's not even close to being able to fit with them on.
Okay, fair enough, it was a bit of a long shot anyway.

Going to really have to think about what TrollBrute said - I really have no idea what we're doing now, I wish someone had brought this stuff up earlier instead of waiting until I try to get the process moving... Looks like this guy may be on hold for a while.
Sometimes you have to get things started in order to get other things moving. Fixing Strange wouldn't have the momentum it does now if you hadn't started Mordo, because it was Mordo that really put a spotlight on Strange. It's kind of a catch-22, I know.

I think Mesmerize should still get tested on its own to firm up a cost, so I'd recommend going ahead with the plan to test Mesmerize. Strange's situation will be pretty much cemented by the time Mesmerize has a few tests in.

If you want it to come in lower, put the vote on hold and let's workshop some changes before calling another vote for initial.

If you're okay with it being expensive, keep the vote open.
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  #41  
Old April 17th, 2017, 08:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I wish someone had brought this stuff up earlier instead of waiting until I try to get the process moving...
Designs always get a much closer scrutiny once they're official threads. Nobody was holding this back, it's just something that was noticed now. I'm not saying Mesmerize is broken either, it just may come in more costly than you expected.

As for Strange holding him up, it shouldn't take very long for us to hash out a direction, and you won't have to wait for him to be officially changed to keep moving here. Hashing out Mesmerize and the other powers should be the focus for now.

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  #42  
Old April 17th, 2017, 08:34 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

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Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I wish someone had brought this stuff up earlier instead of waiting until I try to get the process moving...
Designs always get a much closer scrutiny once they're official threads. Nobody was holding this back, it's just something that was noticed now. I'm not saying Mesmerize is broken either, it just may come in more costly than you expected.

As for Strange holding him up, it shouldn't take very long for us to hash out a direction, and you won't have to wait for him to be officially changed to keep moving here. Hashing out Mesmerize and the other powers should be the focus for now.
I wasn't saying I wish this had all been sorted before I put the thread up, I just kind of wish these things had been brought up during the breathing period before I put Mesmerise up for Initial. Still, I guess it's just one of those things - wasn't actually really having a go at anyone, just venting mild frustration.

Ideally, I'm looking at 35 for Mesmerise. In an ideal world, I'd have Mesmerise at 35 and Mordo at 265 so that they come in at 300 altogether. If we miss that by a bit, though, it aint the end of the world, and I can accept, say, 40 for Mesmerise. 50 feels a bit high to me, though.


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  #43  
Old April 17th, 2017, 09:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

Sorry I haven't posted yet. I definitely like the design, but yeah, Mesmerize is likely to come in pretty costly; not that there's anything really wrong with that, just something to be aware of.

Just spitballing, but for Hypnotic Arts, what about:

Quote:
HYPNOTIC ARTS 13
Instead of rolling attack or defense dice with Baron Mordo against an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 13 or higher, ignore that attack and take control of that opponent's figure and that figure's Army Card, remove any Order Markers on that Army Card and that figure has the personality of Hypnotized until the end of the round. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Baron Mordo, you may take a turn with a Hypnotized figure you control, and may not take any additional turns with other figures you control. At the end of the round, return control of the figure and that figure's Army Card to the player who controlled the figure before it became Hypnotized.
This allows him to use it instead of attacking and also on defense, but at a risk, because if he misses his roll he's left vulnerable to the attack (since he can't roll defense dice); but with Magical Defense, you don't have to worry about him getting one-shotted or anything like that. I believe the text length isn't too bad either.

Than to go with that, Mesmerize could be toned down to something like:

Quote:
MESMIRIZE
Unique Spell
?? Points

Immediately after an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of this figure rolls attack dice against this figure, you may cast this spell to subtract 2 skulls from that attack.
Still a handy spell, and particularly useful for Mordo if he's skipping a defense roll, but much less powerful since it can't cancel out a very big attack.

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  #44  
Old April 17th, 2017, 09:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Sorry I haven't posted yet. I definitely like the design, but yeah, Mesmerize is likely to come in pretty costly; not that there's anything really wrong with that, just something to be aware of.

Just spitballing, but for Hypnotic Arts, what about:

Quote:
HYPNOTIC ARTS 13
Instead of rolling attack or defense dice with Baron Mordo against an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 13 or higher, ignore that attack and take control of that opponent's figure and that figure's Army Card, remove any Order Markers on that Army Card and that figure has the personality of Hypnotized until the end of the round. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Baron Mordo, you may take a turn with a Hypnotized figure you control, and may not take any additional turns with other figures you control. At the end of the round, return control of the figure and that figure's Army Card to the player who controlled the figure before it became Hypnotized.
This allows him to use it instead of attacking and also on defense, but at a risk, because if he misses his roll he's left vulnerable to the attack (since he can't roll defense dice); but with Magical Defense, you don't have to worry about him getting one-shotted or anything like that. I believe the text length isn't too bad either.

Than to go with that, Mesmerize could be toned down to something like:

Quote:
MESMIRIZE
Unique Spell
?? Points

Immediately after an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of this figure rolls attack dice against this figure, you may cast this spell to subtract 2 skulls from that attack.
Still a handy spell, and particularly useful for Mordo if he's skipping a defense roll, but much less powerful since it can't cancel out a very big attack.
Hmm... interesting... I'm definitely tempted to go in this direction. I think I'm going to want to sleep on this and talk about a few different ideas with my brother, but I'm going to need to go to bed fairly soon. I know it won't be night where you guys are, but could we avoid this conversation getting too far out of hand until I can come back to it?


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  #45  
Old April 17th, 2017, 09:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

Without getting too carried away, I like that direction.
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  #46  
Old April 18th, 2017, 03:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Sorry I haven't posted yet. I definitely like the design, but yeah, Mesmerize is likely to come in pretty costly; not that there's anything really wrong with that, just something to be aware of.

Just spitballing, but for Hypnotic Arts, what about:

Quote:
HYPNOTIC ARTS 13
Instead of rolling attack or defense dice with Baron Mordo against an opponent's figure, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 13 or higher, ignore that attack and take control of that opponent's figure and that figure's Army Card, remove any Order Markers on that Army Card and that figure has the personality of Hypnotized until the end of the round. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Baron Mordo, you may take a turn with a Hypnotized figure you control, and may not take any additional turns with other figures you control. At the end of the round, return control of the figure and that figure's Army Card to the player who controlled the figure before it became Hypnotized.
This allows him to use it instead of attacking and also on defense, but at a risk, because if he misses his roll he's left vulnerable to the attack (since he can't roll defense dice); but with Magical Defense, you don't have to worry about him getting one-shotted or anything like that. I believe the text length isn't too bad either.

Than to go with that, Mesmerize could be toned down to something like:

Quote:
MESMIRIZE
Unique Spell
?? Points

Immediately after an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of this figure rolls attack dice against this figure, you may cast this spell to subtract 2 skulls from that attack.
Still a handy spell, and particularly useful for Mordo if he's skipping a defense roll, but much less powerful since it can't cancel out a very big attack.
Okay, having slept on this plan and run it past my brother - I absolutely bloody love this direction! It tones Mesmerise down so it probably won't be too expensive, it's somewhat closer to my original vision, it allows much more strategic decision making, and there aren't many defensive powers in the game that are a tactical decision as to whether or not to use them when they aren't burning a marker or X Marker (Calculated Defence off Deathstroke and Flash Kick off Guile being all that come to mind), and that sounds like some interesting unexplored design space to. It also fits thematically - if you're focused on trying to Hypnotise your aggressor, you're not really going to be defending yourself. I love it!
The one thing I'm wondering about there is the fact that this version is open to affecting Common/Squad figures. I actually love that idea - my original concept had Mordo able to control them because I liked the idea of him doing so - but I cut that worrying that there may be mechanical issues. If there aren't any, or we can find a way round them, then I'd love to do that, but if they are there, I'm happy to go back to only affecting Unique Heroes.
But yeah - assuming no objections, this is the version I'm going with, moving forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Yeah, we already said anyone doing a card design for the magic release could also run a few spells for free.
What was the specific ruling? 'A few spells' sounds remarkably vague.

~Lazy Orang, kind of hoping to get Nightmare in for free after this, now you've put it like that.
Could I have an answer to this, please?


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  #47  
Old April 18th, 2017, 03:40 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

The reason why I was vague is because when I suggested we create some hard limits/parameter I was told it wasn't needed by the other heroes and so the exact rules were purposefully left vague by the others. Ronin was allowed to run 3 Hellfire spells for free and at one point Arkham was working on multiple Elemental spells for Zatanna II with no issues, so I guess just ask the other heroes for their blessing to add another spell if you want to do another one. You have my okay as I'm all for having a bunch of spells available when we release the new spell casting system.
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  #48  
Old April 18th, 2017, 03:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Baron Mordo - Vote for Initial (Mesmerise)

Okay, in that case I'm actually probably going to just do this guy and then work on Spells until either the Spell Set is ready for release or the Heroes tell me I'm pushing my luck. If that's okay, anyway - I'd really like to pad this release as much as possible.

~ Lazy Orang, who's probably going to give this a day to rest and then re-propose a vote for Initial for Viegon's new version of Mesmerise.


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