The Book of S.H.I.E.L.D. Spotter

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Griffin

No, there is a reason, I don't like it. My personal preference isn't retarded, your occasional inability to to take criticism in a mature way kinda is though. As far as the Colossus thing goes, I never said that or supported it.

I didn't say you did, but it was there. And it was also retarded.

I don't need to playtest it because I have already played the crap out of the Omnicrons for the past 3 years. I know that with Taelord, Captain A, height, and your Snipers, it is just toooooooo much, you should know that, and accept it. You are wrong, and that is OK, it happens. In fact, I think it may be too powerful for this unit as well, maybe even more so.

So...drafting 325+ points of OM intensive support for a 100-point squad of 3 AND grabbing height means this 25-point (and that is up for debate) filler unit is too powerful?!

My biggest problem with that line though is that it is weighing this power down. You have the Spotters giving the Snipers 3 freaking powers in what appears to be just one. It is a lot rolled into one, I think I remember you criticizing Wolfhunter for that, and your current power looks a lot like something he would create.

What exactly did I criticize wulf on? I honestly don't remember, though it's quite possible I did. All 3 of those 'powers' that are rolled into one, though, are thematically what it means to a sniper to have 'assisted observation.'

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

I didn't say you did, but it was there. And it was also retarded.

Well, it takes one to know one.

So...drafting 325+ points of OM intensive support for a 100-point squad of 3 AND grabbing height means this 25-point (and that is up for debate) filler unit is too powerful?!

Yes, too powerful. Who the heck plays a 325 point game? I would take this sniper army with the expensive support units every single day of the week and crush all Super Heroes.

What exactly did I criticize wulf on? I honestly don't remember, though it's quite possible I did. All 3 of those 'powers' that are rolled into one, though, are thematically what it means to a sniper to have 'assisted observation.'

It was his Martial Art power that rolled a few powers up into one, I believe.


Don't you think it is OK to just leave DED as is, and not have to try and boost him? I mean, does he really need it? And does this power really need 3 powers in one? Btw, even if you don't like my personal preferences, you should still look at the structure of my wording, it is short and sweet, and I think it could really help you sell your desired power. Don't tell anyone I did anything nice for you though...

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Griffin

Yes, too powerful. Who the heck plays a 325 point game? I would take this sniper army with the expensive support units every single day of the week and crush all Super Heroes.

No one plays 325 point games (*and that was actually 425 points) that I know of, but the majority of games are 500 points. Even at 650, you could only do
220 Cap
200 Crons x2
180 Tae
050 Spotter x2
and have a whopping 7 offensively decent figures, with your ideal situation requiring at least 4 OMs (Cap, Tae, Spotter, Crons) and accessible height to set up.

It was his Martial Art power that rolled a few powers up into one, I believe.

If it's the same one that's on his Green Arrow, it's basically Disengage and Counter Strike...though reading it again, it's actually got some subtlety in that last line that makes it better off as one power.

Don't you think it is OK to just leave DED as is, and not have to try and boost him? I mean, does he really need it?

It would be OK to leave DED as is, but he does need it because he sucks (and I like snipers and sniper should have better than a 50/50 shot at best). Not to mention it's not as fun or Heroscape-y to completely ignore an easily-included and thematically-justified synergy.

And does this power really need 3 powers in one?

I think all '3 powers' are reasonable and easy to understand after reading it through. Does anyone else feel this way? And if so what are some possible solutions (aside from deleting 1/3 of the power)?

Btw, even if you don't like my personal preferences, you should still look at the structure of my wording, it is short and sweet, and I think it could really help you sell your desired power. Don't tell anyone I did anything nice for you though...

I did, and it doesn't because it's not the whole power. The first part also could be misinterpreted as always being "on" and not contingent on the Spotter having LoS.

[IAmBatman]

OK, you guys both give retarded people bad names, so in respect of their community's desire to shun you two, I don't think we should call either of you retarded anymore.
That said, I have no issues with this having cross synergies with Valhalla stuff, nor do I feel it would be in any way broken.
I am kind of not loving the three powers combined in one on this card, though. Is there any way we can break this up into more than one power, cut something, simplify it, etc.? It's just a bit too busy for my tastes right now.

[A3n]

The wording is easily understandable, but does read a little clumsily. I don't mind the 3 powers in 1 personally. I do like the synergy with DED because if you are putting a rag-tag team together a sniper would always prefer to have a spotter no matter who trained them. & I think it's a must that we try bridge the divide between the two universes when an opportunity presents itself. My question is does this wording really mean DED gets to his SA if he has moved? I'm not 100% sure it does override the wording in the SA.

Cheers

[Griffin]

If a Sniper rolls a blank and one skull while using the spotters power, how many total skulls does the Sniper receive?

[Griffin]

OK, I considered it a bit more, and I am persuaded by A3n's points that the cross synergies with the spotters and all snipers is cool, fun, a great way of getting some older units back into the mix. I like that, and I am on board with it. Though I still really dislike the 3 in 1 power. I would like to see the D20 line gone. It is only gonna give DED a 5% boost to his special attack, and that is just not enough to warrant such a burdensome power IMO.

[A3n]

Originally Posted by Griffin

OK, I considered it a bit more, and I am persuaded by A3n's points that the cross synergies with the spotters and all snipers is cool, fun, a great way of getting some older units back into the mix. I like that, and I am on board with it. Though I still really dislike the 3 in 1 power. I would like to see the D20 line gone. It is only gonna give DED a 5% boost to his special attack, and that is just not enough to warrant such a burdensome power IMO.

I was actually also thinking that the +1 to the d20 was a bit too much bother for the little it added. But I wasn't against it because it was a 3 in 1 power.

Cheers

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by A3n

My question is does this wording really mean DED gets to his SA if he has moved? I'm not 100% sure it does override the wording in the SA.

Cheers

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

note that DED's special attack can never be modified, so the Spotter only helps out his normal attack and special power.

Way ahead of you again.

Originally Posted by Griffin

If a Sniper rolls a blank and one skull while using the spotters power, how many total skulls does the Sniper receive?

3. The blank counts as a hit, not a skull.

Originally Posted by A3n

I was actually also thinking that the +1 to the d20 was a bit too much bother for the little it added. But I wasn't against it because it was a 3 in 1 power.

Cheers

Would +2 do it for you? That doubles his chances. Don't forget it is receiving a boost already in that he can move and shoot in the same turn. I want to be careful about making insta-kill too good. This seems like something playtesting would help with again.

[A3n]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

Would +2 do it for you? That doubles his chances. Don't forget it is receiving a boost already in that he can move and shoot in the same turn. I want to be careful about making insta-kill too good. This seems like something playtesting would help with again.

It would make it better.

This is confusing I don't have the DED card in front of me, but did you agree that this power wouldn't allow DED to use his SA to because it can't override the "can't shoot if moved this turn" rule? If so then the only boost he's getting is the d20 increase right ?

Cheers

[NecroBlade]

His normal attack is affected (blanks count as hits), his special POWER can be affected (shoot after moving), but special ATTACKS can never be modified.

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

His normal attack is affected (blanks count as hits), his special POWER can be affected (shoot after moving), but special ATTACKS can never be modified.

Actually, special attacks can be modified by other special powers that explicitly state so. They just can't be modified by normal game mechanics, like height. But it would be perfectly valid to create a special power that stated "All enemy figures roll 1 less attack die when attacking X with a special attack." There's a whole list of reasons why this would not be a good idea, but it would be "legal".

None of that affects your power, though.