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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #37  
Old February 11th, 2021, 10:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Woof, yeah, I don't think we'd write Chomp like that at this point.

In fact, I know we wouldn't, because both Dino-Bite and Chomping Frenzy include a "may."

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #38  
Old February 12th, 2021, 03:04 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Red Tornado (II)

Version Tested:
Quote:
NAME = RED TORNADO
SECRET IDENTITY = JOHN SMITH

SPECIES = ANDROID
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = BRILLIANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 320


CYCLONE CONSTRUCTION
Start the game with 3 Glyphs of Weather: Tornado on this card. Before attacking, you may place up to 3 Glyphs of Weather: Tornado from this card power-side up onto any spaces within 3 spaces of Red Tornado that are not occupied by a glyph. Red Tornado ignores the effects of Glyphs of Weather: Tornado.

F5 FURY
Red Tornado may attack any or all figures adjacent to him. After an adjacent figure defends against Red Tornado's normal attack, you may place the defending figure on an empty space up to X spaces from its current position, ignoring all leaving engagement attacks. X is equal to the number of skulls rolled in the attack.

VORTEX
At the end of the round, you may place all figures and glyphs within 10 spaces of Red Tornado on empty spaces up to 2 spaces closer to Red Tornado, then roll the 20-sided die once for each figure engaged with Red Tornado. If you roll 10 or higher, that figure receives a wound. Red Tornado, and any figures moved by Vortex, never take any leaving engagement attacks.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING
___________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Red Tornado II(320), Green Arrow II(210), Black Canary III(220), Batman III(250) (1000)
vs.
Fantastic Four (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Red Tornado II(320), Cyborg II(230), Zatanna III(250), Plastic Man II(200) (1000)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Moon Knight(150), Shang-Chi(230), Tigra(170) (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Red Tornado II(320), Green Arrow II(210), Wonder Woman III(310), Hawkwoman (260) (1100)
vs.
Star-Lord(250), Nebula(240), Gamora II(300), She-Hulk(310) (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 4
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Red Tornado II(320), Cyborg II(230), Wonder Woman III(310), Martian Manhunter III(340) (1200)
vs.
Ms. Marvel(350), Cap(240), Winter Soldier(240), Quasar(370) (1200)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
He felt a little scary at first, but luck was playing a pretty major factor there. I did notice throughout the games that F5 Fury's Knockback effect felt either too good, or not worth using since you generally want to keep him surrounded. The games where it was used they won, and the games where it wasn't used they lost. It feels like that, if anything, is what may drive his cost, so I'm thinking it's best to just mitigate it a bit to avoid it riding each extreme. Switching to a flat 2 spaces keeps it a bit more reasonable and still allows for some battlefield control and positioning in relation to the Tornado glyphs. We can even drop the adjacency requirement bit with that approach since his range is 3, so he can use it to pull someone in after attacking them if desired, as that was the best play 90% of the time.

The other small tweak is upping the roll on Vortex. Him pulling people in feels fun and fair, but as-is, the roll for the wound feels slightly low/too easy. Bumping that to 12 or higher should feel better.

Hoping we can maintain 320 for a cost, as that seemed to work really well for lots of 1000, 1100, and 1200 point total combinations. He's definitely a lot of fun! Very tactical, potentially punishing, and really makes the Tornado glyphs shine. Finally makes Cyborg feel like a good option, and of course pairs well with several others like Green Arrow, Batman, Zatanna, and Wonder Woman.

Last edited by Arkham; February 12th, 2021 at 07:08 AM.
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  #39  
Old February 12th, 2021, 10:37 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Looking cool! Definitely some scary looking results at first, but yeah lots of easy dials to tweak here. Even dropping attack/life/defense by one might reign him in, but I'm not terribly concerned as of yet. Probably wait for at least one other set of eyes before that.

Pre-yea
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  #40  
Old February 12th, 2021, 01:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Solid changes. Looking good.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #41  
Old February 14th, 2021, 09:01 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Been mulling over Red Tornado still since the first set. Something just wasn't feeling right. The power level was concerning, and the mechanics, especially Vortex, were a little clunky. So after waffling back and forth a bunch on where to take it, and running a couple more games with some tweaks, that I still didn't feel quite got it, I ultimately landed with something I'm happy with. Ran another set with that version, as seen below:

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Red Tornado (II)

Version Tested:
Quote:
NAME = RED TORNADO
SECRET IDENTITY = JOHN SMITH

SPECIES = ANDROID
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = BRILLIANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 320


CYCLONE CONSTRUCTION
Start the game with 3 Glyphs of Weather: Tornado on this card. Before attacking, you may place a Glyph of Weather: Tornado from this card power-side up onto any space within 3 spaces of Red Tornado that is not occupied by a glyph. At the end of the round, you may place any previously removed Glyphs of Weather: Tornado back onto this card. Red Tornado and friendly figures within 3 spaces of Red Tornado ignore the effects of Glyphs of Weather: Tornado.

WHIRLWIND ASSAULT
Red Tornado may attack any or all figures adjacent to him. Roll each attack separately.

F5 FURY
At the end of the round, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card to roll the 20-sided die. Players must then roll the 20-sided die for each figure they control within 3 spaces of Red Tornado. If they do not roll higher than your roll, place that figure on an empty space up to 3 spaces from its current placement and, if it is an enemy figure, it receives a wound. Red Tornado, and any figures placed by F5 Fury, never take any leaving engagement attacks.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING
___________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Red Tornado II(320), Green Arrow II(210), Black Canary III(220), Batman III(250) (1000)
vs.
Fantastic Four (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Red Tornado II(320), Green Arrow II(210), Wonder Woman III(310), Hawkwoman (260) (1100)
vs.
Star-Lord(250), Nebula(240), Gamora II(300), She-Hulk(310) (1100)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Red Tornado II(320), Cyborg II(230), Zatanna III(250), Plastic Man II(200) (1000)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Moon Knight(150), Shang-Chi(230), Tigra(170) (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
He feels a lot...safer? Which is a good thing. Still lots of fun and packed with battlefield control and d20 rolls galore. Cyborg and Aztek can really benefit from the F5 Fury end of round placements. Batman and Zatanna love all of the d20 rolls. Wonder Woman likes the attacks. Plastic Man and Aquaman like getting surrounded. Green Arrow and Canary like the placements for their bonus actions.

He can still get nasty, but the limit to one glyph placed a turn, and his end of round ability relying on a strong roll from his end, then giving each figure a chance to beat it, keeps him feeling reasonable.
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  #42  
Old February 14th, 2021, 09:15 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Looks good.
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  #43  
Old February 14th, 2021, 09:25 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Bit of a bummer to lose the start zone sucking effect, just because it was mechanically interesting, but I understand avoiding it if it was feeling overpowered.

"Previously removed" is a bit confusing in Cyclone Construction. I kept waiting to read an effect in another power that removed the Tornados from the battlefield. I guess that's referencing removing them from the card? I might say "previously placed" or "your placed" perhaps?

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #44  
Old February 14th, 2021, 09:45 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

More than anything, it just felt clunky, not a balance issue. I wanted to simplify what you could do in his turn so he wasn’t such a force, then use the end of round bit to do something big. Pulling people from 10 spaces a couple spaces, while a little beneficial, ultimately didn’t seem to really make the splash I was looking for. I also didn’t like the head space that the designs was going towards. 3 Range, 3 spaces for glyph placement, 2 space movement to the defending figure, 10 space pull, 2 space placement, 12 or higher roll to adjacent figures... The differing numbers was less than ideal, and moving glyphs and figures “closer” to Red Tornado sometimes felt clunky.

So the desire for simplicity and cohesiveness I went with this approach. Has a bit more visual flair IMO of him making a tornado around himself, flinging everyone everywhere, be it closer or further, wounding enemies or aiding allies, and ultimately a fun mechanic of a “beat my roll” that hasn’t really been done.
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  #45  
Old February 14th, 2021, 09:57 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Fair enough. Definitely pairs him well with Batman and Doctor Fate as well.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #46  
Old February 14th, 2021, 10:09 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

I'd toss this in as well, just to make it clear you don't have to move them. (Unless that was the intent.)
Quote:
F5 FURY
At the end of the round, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card to roll the 20-sided die. Players must then roll the 20-sided die for each figure they control within 3 spaces of Red Tornado. If they do not roll higher than your roll, you may place that figure on an empty space up to 3 spaces from its current placement and, if it is an enemy figure, it receives a wound. Red Tornado, and any figures placed by F5 Fury, never take any leaving engagement attacks.
Rereading it again, I also completely missed the 'Red Tornado never takes LEAs' bit - that feels very hidden to me, but not sure what to do about it.
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  #47  
Old February 14th, 2021, 11:05 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Glad you found something you're happier with. I agree with Bats about the "previously removed" wording being confusing.

Pre-yea
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  #48  
Old February 15th, 2021, 05:36 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Tornado (II) (Vote 4 Public Playtesting)

Updated the SP.

I propose a vote to move to Public Playtesting.
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