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  #433  
Old November 8th, 2019, 11:40 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Been thinking a lot about the Beakface Archer lately...here's what I've come up with.

Quote:
NAME = BEAKFACE ARCHER

SPECIES = RAPTORIAN
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = SCOUT
PERSONALITY = Tricky (Skittish obviously fits here, but I feel like it made more sense when they had Evasive...Tricky fits the concealed part)
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/4

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 7
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 25

CONCEALED AMBUSH
Instead of attacking normally with a Beakface Archer, you may attack with each Beakface Archer you control that is on a Shadow space or adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece.

SCOUT AHEAD (or RELAY COMMANDS)
After taking a turn with a Beakface Archer, if it attacked an opponent's figure with its normal attack, you may move up to 6 Raptorians you control that did not move or attack this turn up to 6 spaces each.

GLIDE
Beakface Archers never roll for falling damage.
I realized I needed something a little different for the faction. This power set I think is thematic in that it provides some really cool multi-attack potential, but only in the right setting...but even on a map without concealment, you've got quite a bit of utility still in that they can move your Raptorians around the board with their scouting. I also like the interplay here between the 2 powers when THERE IS concealment for the Archers to utilize. You'll notice that 1 power could allow you to amass a bunch of Archers in to position, while the other would allow a multi-attack ambush BUT never in the same turn. It creates some tension for wanting to get off multiple ambush attacks with positioned archers, but giving up positioning your other sneaks.

The fear here of course still becomes if they outclass the Sneaks. Well, I'm not sure...but for their weaker attack...maybe not. Would love to hear some thoughts?
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  #434  
Old November 11th, 2019, 02:59 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Been thinking a lot about the Beakface Archer lately...here's what I've come up with.

Quote:
NAME = BEAKFACE ARCHER

SPECIES = RAPTORIAN
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = SCOUT
PERSONALITY = Tricky (Skittish obviously fits here, but I feel like it made more sense when they had Evasive...Tricky fits the concealed part)
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/4

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 7
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 25

CONCEALED AMBUSH
Instead of attacking normally with a Beakface Archer, you may attack with each Beakface Archer you control that is on a Shadow space or adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece.

SCOUT AHEAD (or RELAY COMMANDS)
After taking a turn with a Beakface Archer, if it attacked an opponent's figure with its normal attack, you may move up to 6 Raptorians you control that did not move or attack this turn up to 6 spaces each.

GLIDE
Beakface Archers never roll for falling damage.
I realized I needed something a little different for the faction. This power set I think is thematic in that it provides some really cool multi-attack potential, but only in the right setting...but even on a map without concealment, you've got quite a bit of utility still in that they can move your Raptorians around the board with their scouting. I also like the interplay here between the 2 powers when THERE IS concealment for the Archers to utilize. You'll notice that 1 power could allow you to amass a bunch of Archers in to position, while the other would allow a multi-attack ambush BUT never in the same turn. It creates some tension for wanting to get off multiple ambush attacks with positioned archers, but giving up positioning your other sneaks.

The fear here of course still becomes if they outclass the Sneaks. Well, I'm not sure...but for their weaker attack...maybe not. Would love to hear some thoughts?
I don't think Concealed Ambush really works. Maybe it's ok, but it's generally problematic to activate additional units in the attack phase. It would be better to do some form of attack bonding.
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  #435  
Old November 11th, 2019, 04:09 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't think Concealed Ambush really works. Maybe it's ok, but it's generally problematic to activate additional units in the attack phase. It would be better to do some form of attack bonding.
Not sure I follow...maybe an example could help? Is it because each unit isnít really taking a defined turn?
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  #436  
Old November 11th, 2019, 04:14 PM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't think Concealed Ambush really works. Maybe it's ok, but it's generally problematic to activate additional units in the attack phase. It would be better to do some form of attack bonding.
Not sure I follow...maybe an example could help? Is it because each unit isnít really taking a defined turn?
Right, exactly. It's sort of turning a hero into a squad, but not really, since most don't get a movement phase. That's... ugly.

Something like this could work:
Quote:
CONCEALED AMBUSH
After revealing an Order Marker on this Beakface Archer and before taking a turn, you may first take a turn with every other Beakface Archer you control that is on a Shadow space or adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece. During those turns those Beakface Archers may not move.
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  #437  
Old November 11th, 2019, 04:32 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Might have to consider that, or else you get get like a half dozen Plus chances at it an order marker, even though that's be tough to position then like that.

Something like this could work:
Quote:
CONCEALED AMBUSH
After revealing an Order Marker on this Beakface Archer and before taking a turn, you may first take a turn with every other Beakface Archer you control that is on a Shadow space or adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece. During those turns those Beakface Archers may not move or roll for the rejected by death special ability.
[/QUOTE]
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  #438  
Old November 11th, 2019, 04:42 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by brak88 View Post
Might have to consider that, or else you get get like a half dozen Plus chances at it an order marker, even though that's be tough to position then like that.

Something like this could work:
Quote:
CONCEALED AMBUSH
After revealing an Order Marker on this Beakface Archer and before taking a turn, you may first take a turn with every other Beakface Archer you control that is on a Shadow space or adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece. During those turns those Beakface Archers may not move or roll for the rejected by death special ability.
[/QUOTE]

I like Scytaleís suggestion. And you do bring up a good point, but that could easily be nerfed by CAPPING the number of potential attackers. As you say though, the setup would be trickier so not entirely sure itís broken...yet.
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  #439  
Old November 11th, 2019, 04:43 PM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
I like Scytaleís suggestion. And you do bring up a good point, but that could easily be nerfed by CAPPING the number of potential attackers. As you say though, the setup would be trickier so not entirely sure itís broken...yet.
Might be broken in Heat of Battle or scenarios. I would cap it.
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  #440  
Old November 11th, 2019, 04:47 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
I like Scytaleís suggestion. And you do bring up a good point, but that could easily be nerfed by CAPPING the number of potential attackers. As you say though, the setup would be trickier so not entirely sure itís broken...yet.
Might be broken in Heat of Battle or scenarios. I would cap it.
Oo, yeah good point.
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  #441  
Old November 17th, 2019, 03:01 PM
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Sir Heroscape Sir Heroscape is offline
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Here's where I'm at. I'd like to playtest a little bit...but curious if there are any hard objections to this direction?

Quote:
NAME = BEAKFACE ARCHER

SPECIES = RAPTORIAN
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = SCOUT
PERSONALITY = SKITTISH
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/4

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 7
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 25

CONCEALED AMBUSH
After revealing an Order Marker on a Beakface Archer and before taking its turn, you may first take a turn with up to 3 other Beakface Archers you control that are on a Shadow space or adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece. While using Concealed Ambush, Beakface Archers cannot move.

SCOUT AHEAD
After taking a turn with a Beakface Archer, if it attacked an opponent's figure, you may move up to 6 Raptorians you control that did not move or attack this turn up to 6 spaces each.

GLIDE
Beakface Archers never roll for falling damage.
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  #442  
Old November 17th, 2019, 03:10 PM
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Sir Heroscape Sir Heroscape is offline
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Also curious what people think about Veguzza and removing his swamp ability?



I really do like having something thematic on the card for a swamp ability, but Uzog doesn't so there's that. I also felt like it made the card busier than it needed to be and simplified his design...but idk...I kinda miss a thematic swamp ability. Thoughts?
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  #443  
Old November 17th, 2019, 03:20 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Is the intent that all four Beakface Archers cannot move when using Concealed Ambush, or just that the three extra turns cannot move?

As a quick note, I think that Improved Flocking is a better name for that power than Scout Ahead. The class of Scout already conveys that theme, and since it only works on Raptorians, I think that the flocking theme makes more sense.

I'm also a little confused as to the intended interaction between Concealed Ambush and Scout Ahead right now. From reading the current text, I think that each activated Archer could use Scout Ahead after attacking an enemy, which could very quickly get out of hand (especially since you could move other Archers early on to get the extra activations to move different archers). If this is intended to stack this way, then perhaps normal Flocking would be a more reasonable combo.

Mechanically, I'm not a huge fan of Concealed Ambush. The power is fine thematically, but it doesn't fully jive with Scout Ahead IMO. It might just be extra common hero turn fatigue or the way that it's so map dependent in a faction that doesn't really have that theme, but I feel somewhat ambivalent towards it. I could even see the Archer being worthwhile without any extra activations, honestly, depending on how useful Scout Ahead is for the other Raptorians.
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  #444  
Old November 17th, 2019, 03:29 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Is the intent that all four Beakface Archers cannot move when using Concealed Ambush, or just that the three extra turns cannot move?
Yes, all can't move.

Quote:
From reading the current text, I think that each activated Archer could use Scout Ahead after attacking an enemy, which could very quickly get out of hand (especially since you could move other Archers early on to get the extra activations to move different archers). If this is intended to stack this way, then perhaps normal Flocking would be a more reasonable combo.
Whoops...yeah, weird how I missed that. Yes that would be the interaction as is, but no that was not intended. I'll have to think on that.
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