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  #73  
Old November 4th, 2019, 02:51 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Knights > Heavies > Marro Stingers > Greenscales > Dwarves > Romans > Deathchasers > Nagrubs > Blades > Sacred Band > Gladiators > MacDirks > Spiders > Armocs > Death Knights > Wolves of Badru > Groks

I can't be the only one that disagrees with this can I? Stingers are so bad against bonding melee. It's not even close.

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Last edited by Matthias Maccabeus; November 5th, 2019 at 01:53 PM. Reason: There's no way Cody is serious right?
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  #74  
Old November 4th, 2019, 03:50 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

I wouldn't put them that high.

They can be dominant in my local meta, but that's because we tend not to run swarming knights, bonding dwarves, etc.

I heard your take on them, Matthias. I wouldn't go as far as you did, but I'd slide them on Cleon's scale down below Deathchasers. I figure they match up favorably against Nagrub armies, because the Stingers are hero killers. I'd also slide Gladiators up, so that they were (just) above Stingers, and below DCs, Matthias, essentially for the reason you gave on the podcast. With Spartacus, they're good enough. And with Crixus, too, they are a very effective bonding melee squad.

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  #75  
Old November 4th, 2019, 04:20 PM
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Sting It For The Boys, Sting It For The Girls

I mean straight stingers or stingers with a screen or stingers with the hive? Because I'd put each of those in a different spot on that list.

~Dysole, who admittedly hasn't gotten around to hearing this latest one

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  #76  
Old November 4th, 2019, 04:26 PM
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Re: Sting It For The Boys, Sting It For The Girls

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Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
I mean straight stingers or stingers with a screen or stingers with the hive? Because I'd put each of those in a different spot on that list.

~Dysole, who admittedly hasn't gotten around to hearing this latest one
In all honesty I don’t think it matters much...
I even beat them with Death knights at the last TTO. Unless you’re on some ridiculous hilly map that is hard core anti melee I just don’t see it.

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Last edited by Matthias Maccabeus; November 5th, 2019 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Stingers are horribad
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  #77  
Old November 4th, 2019, 04:35 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

MM meta is a little different than most of us.
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  #78  
Old November 4th, 2019, 04:49 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

I meant thatís where they are among the bonding-melee relative to the entire game. In an all bonding-melee meta where you can only play bonding-melee, and also Stingers, they might be lower. But I honestly donít think theyíre that much lower.

Stingers are amazing.
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  #79  
Old November 4th, 2019, 07:25 PM
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Re: Sting It For The Boys, Sting It For The Girls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
I mean straight stingers or stingers with a screen or stingers with the hive? Because I'd put each of those in a different spot on that list.

~Dysole, who admittedly hasn't gotten around to hearing this latest one
It was my sense in the podcast and here that the query involves (1) an optimized army, whatever that means to the player involved, and (2) all other things being equal, by which I mean a map that isn't imbalanced.

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  #80  
Old November 5th, 2019, 11:42 PM
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Re: Sting It For The Boys, Sting It For The Girls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
I mean straight stingers or stingers with a screen or stingers with the hive? Because I'd put each of those in a different spot on that list.

~Dysole, who admittedly hasn't gotten around to hearing this latest one
It was my sense in the podcast and here that the query involves (1) an optimized army, whatever that means to the player involved, and (2) all other things being equal, by which I mean a map that isn't imbalanced.
Yeah, we're specifically talking about optimized armies at this point. At 400 points and 16 figures, 5x Stingers, Raelin, Marcu is an example of that; at 20 figures, 4x Stingers, 2x Rats, Raelin is.
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  #81  
Old November 6th, 2019, 12:06 AM
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Optimized Prime

I'll listen to it soon and see Matthias' argument, but based on my estimate, I'm probably closer to Cleon's viewpoint than his, although I'm not sure precisely where I'd put them. Range and Raelin (and rats) is good yo.

~Dysole, noting that she finds Stingers less fun than other units because she finds their decision points relatively straightforward

Where in the Masq is Dysole Sandiego?

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  #82  
Old November 6th, 2019, 12:08 AM
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Re: Optimized Prime

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Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
~Dysole, noting that she finds Stingers less fun than other units because she finds their decision points relatively straightforward
Well, the discussion is about min-maxing. We can all agree that the 4th Mass. is a pretty boring army to play, because of the flow chart, and Stingers are not that much different. But the query is not about what's fun, but about what's optimized.

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  #83  
Old November 6th, 2019, 12:11 AM
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Tangential Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
~Dysole, noting that she finds Stingers less fun than other units because she finds their decision points relatively straightforward
Well, the discussion is about min-maxing. We can all agree that the 4th Mass. is a pretty boring army to play, because of the flow chart, and Stingers are not that much different. But the query is not about what's fun, but about what's optimized.
I'm well aware. I just trail off onto semi-related tangents as per my particular idiom. It also means I play less with Stingers than other units, so I don't have as clearly formed of an idea as others might since I have to stretch farther back for other games. But then again my trains of thought aren't always easy for even me to follow.

~Dysole, lackadaisically

Where in the Masq is Dysole Sandiego?

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  #84  
Old November 8th, 2019, 05:48 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

I was thinking we were talking all Stingers, or Stingers + a hero. Maybe Raelin, but I remember when Raelin was thrown in the discussion changed a bit so I think we were initially assuming without her. I personally wasn’t thinking Stingers + Rats, I think that’s a different army. But all are good imo. I like running each of those.

Also I wasn’t vocal in the cast when we briefly mentioned Draining. I actually don’t think I’m in the never-Drain camp anymore, or very-rarely-Drain camp, which is almost one and the same. I’ve done a little bit of experimenting with Draining frequently and it’s really interesting, it’s kind of like you build up tension on the sacrifice turns and strike back hard enough later to make up for it and often get more out of it. Like, you sacrifice position, give it to your opponent, and then destroy their position harder so it’s a net win. At least that’s how it’s felt in the few games I’ve consciously been testing it. Still need to play with it much more but I think Draining is worth looking into. Obviously there are times when you really shouldn’t and really should, but there’s quite a lot of grey area in between that’s up for consideration which usually gets dismissed. Raelin does help too.

I think I don’t put the Stingers with 4th Mass/Q9 in the too straightforward and boring category because of Draining...but never/rarely-Drain Stingers probably fall into that.
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