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  #6577  
Old October 2nd, 2019, 11:28 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Great Axes of Ironstone have received 5 Yea votes to review (All Your Pie, Scytale, wriggz, Astroking112, and superfrog) and move forward in the process.
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  #6578  
Old October 2nd, 2019, 04:02 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Alright, I'm pulling Dalmar. He is no longer in the process.
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  #6579  
Old October 2nd, 2019, 06:15 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Alright, I'm pulling Dalmar. He is no longer in the process.
I don't se any reason to pull, only to submit independently. all your eggs in one basket and all that


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  #6580  
Old October 2nd, 2019, 08:51 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Alright, I'm pulling Dalmar. He is no longer in the process.
I don't se any reason to pull, only to submit independently. all your eggs in one basket and all that
The Great Axes are already in review. I did want them reviewed together, but that ship looks like it has sailed. Since this is a retraction and resubmission, Dalmar's current iteration has no upvotes, and a downvote. It is not ideal, but I've already jumped through too many hoops trying to apeal to all the judges. I need to pull out and rethink what exactly I want, and stick to it, instead of tweaking things so abruptly.

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I will take it as a retraction and resubmission.

I applaud decision to change, but I feel you missed the mark. Why still have Commons? Is there some synergy you're forcing here? It seems that simply "Squad figures" does what you need, mechanically and thematically. His picky protection was already pushing things thematically; I feel this just muddies it more.

to review Dalmar Stonewall
Common heros are basically squad figures in my mind. There's several common heros that literally just function as squads. A good example would be, Thralls. They literally function as a squad with different abilities for each figure. Wyrmlings are the same, and we're getting the Shadow faction through the SoV, which is also the same thing. The only reason they aren't called squads, is because you can't have a squad of 1. That's the reason for including commons.
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  #6581  
Old October 2nd, 2019, 11:01 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
I need to pull out and rethink what exactly I want, and stick to it, instead of tweaking things so abruptly.
Absolutely! I think that the design got a bit away from you for a little bit, and I think you should go back to the first iteration you had (with the battle charge power) and work from there. I think you had something pretty specific in mind when you first submitted; submit something you want, not something that just the judges want.

I really like these dwarves, they remind me a lot of the very first custom I posted on this site. It was a unique elf squad and a unique elf hero. The elf hero had a pretty cool "Two-Sword Defense" ability while the squad had an op "bond-with-anyone" ability. They were supposed to be linked theme-wise, but in my mind you were supposed to use the two together as well, even though the hero didn't do anything in particular for the squad. I'm kind of getting the same vibe from this much (much much much) more polished custom, and I'd really suggest you work toward making Dalmar work well with the squad, even if he doesn't have some explicit synergy. I think themed but not super-synergistic hero-squad combos, ala Concan and the Sentinels or the Vikings or, heck, I'm sure there's some more, I think they're a bit underrepresented in fanscape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It
Common heros are basically squad figures in my mind. There's several common heros that literally just function as squads. A good example would be, Thralls. They literally function as a squad with different abilities for each figure. Wyrmlings are the same, and we're getting the Shadow faction through the SoV, which is also the same thing. The only reason they aren't called squads, is because you can't have a squad of 1. That's the reason for including commons.
Hmm, I don't know about this though. I think there's a pretty big difference between a squadie and a common hero. Think a blade grut vs. a swog rider. Being a hero has some perks, whether you're common or unique, like when it comes to getting chomped or acid breathe-ed. I don't think they're heroes simply because you can't have a squad of one. Common heroes are generally a bit better than squadlings stats-wise too, I think.

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  #6582  
Old October 3rd, 2019, 12:33 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince View Post
Absolutely! I think that the design got a bit away from you for a little bit, and I think you should go back to the first iteration you had (with the battle charge power) and work from there. I think you had something pretty specific in mind when you first submitted; submit something you want, not something that just the judges want.

I really like these dwarves, they remind me a lot of the very first custom I posted on this site. It was a unique elf squad and a unique elf hero. The elf hero had a pretty cool "Two-Sword Defense" ability while the squad had an op "bond-with-anyone" ability. They were supposed to be linked theme-wise, but in my mind you were supposed to use the two together as well, even though the hero didn't do anything in particular for the squad. I'm kind of getting the same vibe from this much (much much much) more polished custom, and I'd really suggest you work toward making Dalmar work well with the squad, even if he doesn't have some explicit synergy. I think themed but not super-synergistic hero-squad combos, ala Concan and the Sentinels or the Vikings or, heck, I'm sure there's some more, I think they're a bit underrepresented in fanscape.
While I liked the charge ability on Dalmar, I'm not too concerned with his mobility, because he has a squad to bond with. The Great Axes on the other hand need some kind of mobility boost to stay relevant as a unique squad, or they need to have 5 move. I think that Adrenaline Burst is a thematic way to do that, and it is vaguely similar to the Axegrinders +2 move they can choose to get when they don't bond.

I think that the protector ability is all the synergy Dalmar needs to have with the Great Axes. I think it's a good call to add that synergy.

When I first found this set, I made them a 5 figure common squad. Dalmar then came into existence as an Uncommon hero, with a 4 figure common squad. And then they all became unique. Several Iterations later, and many small changes, they were brought them here. Dalmar isn't really supposed to have any specific synergy, The theme is just another Dwarven clan/kingdom/city sending their elite reinforcements to the war effort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince View Post
Hmm, I don't know about this though. I think there's a pretty big difference between a squadie and a common hero. Think a blade grut vs. a swog rider. Being a hero has some perks, whether you're common or unique, like when it comes to getting chomped or acid breathe-ed. I don't think they're heroes simply because you can't have a squad of one. Common heroes are generally a bit better than squadlings stats-wise too, I think.
Disregarding the fact that there are powers that specify squad and figure, not because it isn't an important distinction, but because it isn't relevant to my point, there are certainly some common heros that are not squad like. At the same time, there are others that very much are just a squad figure, where they couldn't find the figures to make one. Take the 8th Infantry Pathfinder, or Nottingham Brigand. They really are just filling the role of a squad, where the C3V/SoV couldn't find the figures available to make a squad. Then there's the Thralls that really are just a squad, but with different abilities for each figure. The Microcorp Troopers are similar in a way, because one of them gets a special attack each turn, while the rest are simple squaddies. I kind of wish there was a distinction for these kinds of common heros. Maybe even just squaddie, instead of common hero, so that the in game mechanics could properly represent what they really are.

Anyway, this is my line of thinking. Even if you don't agree, I hope it makes sense.
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  #6583  
Old October 3rd, 2019, 12:21 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Disregarding the fact that there are powers that specify squad and figure, not because it isn't an important distinction, but because it isn't relevant to my point, there are certainly some common heros that are not squad like. At the same time, there are others that very much are just a squad figure, where they couldn't find the figures to make one. Take the 8th Infantry Pathfinder, or Nottingham Brigand. They really are just filling the role of a squad, where the C3V/SoV couldn't find the figures available to make a squad. Then there's the Thralls that really are just a squad, but with different abilities for each figure. The Microcorp Troopers are similar in a way, because one of them gets a special attack each turn, while the rest are simple squaddies. I kind of wish there was a distinction for these kinds of common heros. Maybe even just squaddie, instead of common hero, so that the in game mechanics could properly represent what they really are.

Anyway, this is my line of thinking. Even if you don't agree, I hope it makes sense.
I see where you're coming from, but sometimes it's the details that hold back an otherwise great design. Protector of Ironstone is a good, simple ability in concept, and that's exactly how it should be on the card. More conditions just muddies theme and raises more questions ("why doesn't he like other unique heroes?"). Limiting it to Commons was a fine way to do that, but having him explicitly not help the figures he came with is odd. Also, gamewise, unique squads need the protection more than the common ones! Forgot the handful of pseudo-squads, which Dalmar isn't going to be protecting anyway (mixing him with Thralls is not going to be his best use). He should care the most about dwarves anyway, and they don't have any pseudo-squads.
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  #6584  
Old October 3rd, 2019, 08:52 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Lilja by @Lamaclown

Trying to live and love,
With a defense that can be broken,
Is like trying to see the light with eyes that can't be opened.
Yeah, we both carry baggage,
We picked up on our way, so if you review me do it gently,
And I will do the same.

She may shine, she may shatter,
We may be picking up the pieces here on after,
She is fragile, She is a golem,
She is shaped by the skulls she lets through her defense roll,
But will she break fast, cause she is glass?
Or will she shine on into the SoV?

--

Balance

Her stats are fine for her point cost, especially since she has a negative power that can reduce one of them. Neither of her two positive powers are doing anything outlandish compared to similar heroes in her range.

--

Theme

Theme is a little weird here to me. I guess I tend to think of glass shattering as more of an 'all or nothing' deal instead of an incremental effect, but I can live with it. There's at least a clear thematic flow between the effects of her two new powers.

--

Creativity

There's a neat dynamic here where she turns her negative power into something positive-ish. She wants high defense early to not get wrecked by ranged attacks, but in the late game the lower defense makes her shards a bit scarier. Cool stuff.

--

Playability

Lilja felt like a pure 'blitzkrieg' style unit to me, you really just want to charge into someone (ideally multiple someones) as quick as possible and see who goes down first. I played her pretty much exclusively with Talingul, as he lets you be a lot more aggressive with her without worrying about losing Order Markers when she cracks under pressure. She's not as great as a solo act.

In general, I didn't worry too much about setting up the perfect Shard explosion or what-not. The psychological pressure she can put on your opponent by playing fast and cavalier and basically just forcing them to deal with her was worth the price of admission to me even if she didn't strictly earn her points back in wounds. Likewise, I didn't shy away from taking leaving engagement attacks if it proved useful. I see her as a unit with 2 defense and a power that wants her to die, with those other 3 defense just an early bonus. Embracing that idea generally gave me more... explosive... results than trying to protect her defense dice and playing cautiously did.

Also worth noting here is that you can trigger shards yourself if you want to, which can be a pretty potent 'combo' move in a Talingul army since you can charge her into a group of figures, attack, and then detonate her with another construct all with out losing much efficiency. I used this a few times, especially when the other team had Special Attacks. Not necessarily something you should be aiming to do, but it's an important tool in her arsenal.


--

Summary

Overall, I'm fine with Lilja. The theme doesn't quite resonate with me, but it is a lot of fun charging at people with a giant glass woman who's ready to explode at any moment. I for one am ready to stain her glass with the blood of my enemies.

I vote to induct Lilja to the SoV.


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  #6585  
Old October 3rd, 2019, 09:19 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Nice! That makes 4 for Lilja!

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  #6586  
Old October 4th, 2019, 02:18 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Is she really a single base?
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  #6587  
Old October 4th, 2019, 02:37 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Is she really a single base?


Yes, that is how she is based.

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  #6588  
Old October 4th, 2019, 06:32 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Dalmar Stonewall has been removed by the submitter's request.

Lilja by @Lamaclown has received 4 Yea votes to induct (superfrog, Scytale, BiggaBullfrog, and Soundwarp SG-1) and moves forward in the process.
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