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  #121  
Old August 15th, 2019, 05:08 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Let's kick things back into action on this unit. I think that it's fair to say we're pretty much in agreement on these parts, save for potentially the name and left box stats:

Quote:
Velnesh Assassins (?)

Velnesh
Unique Squad
Experiments
Tormented

LIFE 1 (3 figures)
MOVE 4
RANGE 1
ATTACK 4

BLINK

Before or after moving, you may place a Velnesh Assassin on any empty space within 2 spaces. Velnesh Assassins will not take leaving engagement attacks while Blinking.
For my own personal preferences, I would pair this with 3 defense and the following defensive power:
Quote:
Phase Shift
When a Velnesh Assassin receives one or more wounds from a normal attack by a non-adjacent figure, you may place that Velnesh Assassin on any empty space adjacent to the attacking figure to ignore all wounds. Phase Shift can only be used once per turn.
I know that this seems overbearing against range, but if it can only be used once per turn and can be avoided entirely by engaging the aliens first (which should be possible since they only have 1 range), I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. It reminds me a little of Thorian Speed, although I think that there are significantly more ways to play around this. My main concern is pairing this with the situational disengage from Blink, although their range of 1 does a lot to stem this sort of behavior.

That said, I'm equally willing to drop the ability to ignore wounds, keep the teleportation to a ranged attacker after successfully defending, and just test them out without a defensive power to see if they truly need the help. We could always keep them as cheaper strike units.

If anyone else has ideas, I think that we should discuss them. There seems to be some consensus for the ranged teleport, but we need to iron out the details for what we're looking for before proceeding.
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  #122  
Old August 16th, 2019, 05:17 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Once per turn certainly keeps it from simply being Thorian Speed, since squads and multi-attackers can get around the wound-ignoring.

I think somewhere back there was also the idea of simply moving them adjacent to a non-adjacent figure that targets them; the attack would still happen, but they'd be able to move to even or potentially high ground first, and if they survive the ranged figure is now engaged. I don't think "Phase Shift" worked as a name for me for that version.

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  #123  
Old August 16th, 2019, 05:33 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I think somewhere back there was also the idea of simply moving them adjacent to a non-adjacent figure that targets them; the attack would still happen, but they'd be able to move to even or potentially high ground first, and if they survive the ranged figure is now engaged. I don't think "Phase Shift" worked as a name for me for that version.
This works fine for the second power for me as well. If they're underperforming or feeling too frustrating to play, we can add a more defensive aspect to the power later.

For alternative names to Phase Shift, we could look at a simpler word that feels more in line with Blink. Something like Ripple, Leap, Flash, et cetera. None of the simpler words that I can think of are really that good, but something like that could feel right at home with Blink thematically.
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  #124  
Old August 18th, 2019, 10:08 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I'm pretty excited about this design, cuz I really like the sculpts! They definitely work as some kind of nasty, uber mobile aliens. Blink and the suggested Phase Shift that allows them to move adjacent when targeted seems like a very solid starting point. For a one word name for Phase Shift to go with Blink, I might suggest just Shift, although that's a bit nondescript.

Theme-wise, the sculpts look vaguely monkey-ish, and very very vaguely Marro... Maybe they could be a genetically engineered species made by the Primadons to combat the Marro? Or even vice versa? Or perhaps a whole other race from Marr that's been enslaved by the Raptorians, if you wanted to stick with the escaped experiments shtick? Anyway, I think it might be cool if they were from Marr.

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  #125  
Old August 18th, 2019, 11:52 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince View Post
Maybe they could be a genetically engineered species made by the Primadons to combat the Marro? Or even vice versa?
That's an interesting thought. I think I still lean toward Arctorus or some other space-y planet, but I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.

As for their powers, here's what I got to thinking recently:

SHIFT
Before or after moving, you may place a [Spooky Alien] on any empty space within 2 spaces. [Spooky Aliens] will not take leaving engagement attacks while Shifting.

BLINK
When a [Spooky Alien] is targeted for a normal attack from a non-adjacent attacking figure, that [Spooky Alien] may immediately move using the Shift special power.


Swapped the names (and trimmed Phase Shift to Shift thanks to @Maklar the Silver Prince ) since Shift sounds more deliberate while Blink sounds more rapid and reactive.

Moving adjacent to the attacker was kind of neat thematically (for the terror angle), but they already have good speed and don't necessarily need it. The new Blink (wording modeled after Spider-Man/Venom) would similarly allow the targeted alien to seek height, or perhaps shadow or jungle, or even duck behind a ruin to avoid the shot altogether (allowing re-targeting like Nakitas succeeding Smoke Powder). Only working against non-adjacent attacks also cuts down on their abuse vs other melee, making them rely on their superior movement and Attack to get there and get first blood. Also opens a tiny door to counter-play, where the opponent can target them to force them off certain spaces, or they stay and risk dying. Then pair with 3 Defense and I think we have a winner.

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  #126  
Old August 18th, 2019, 12:09 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I can get used to just Shift as a name paired with Blink.

I'm fine with saying that the Primadons were the ones to create them as well. It saves us from having to put too many of our Sci-Fi units on Arctorus, and Marr has had plenty of genetic experimentation so it wouldn't be a stretch given their theme. The transparent figures don't quite match the aesthetic of Marr as well as Arctorus, though, given that we've mostly seen twisted creatures (such as snakes and gorillas) and the Marro rather than true Sci-Fi stuff that's blinking in and out of existence.

@NecroBlade I like swapping Shift to be the teleport and Blink to be the reaction against range. When we had discussed this proposed direction before, we were hesitant because it might end up being too similar to the Ninjas of the Northern Wind. I'd be fine with testing this out, though; depending on the price point, ease of use with teleportation, and the lack of avoiding wounds with Blink (as opposed to Vanish), I think that we have some leeway for still creating a distinct design.

We need to add that one of the aliens can't use Blink more than once per turn, though, otherwise we'll end up with a chain of targeting actions that let each figure move until they're either out of range or behind cover.
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  #127  
Old August 19th, 2019, 04:22 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I like this version, NB. It’s simple and hits all the points we wanted to hit.

I’m okay with saying the Primadons made them but I also like the idea of them just being from another plane. Small gripe though.
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  #128  
Old August 19th, 2019, 07:35 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
When we had discussed this proposed direction before, we were hesitant because it might end up being too similar to the Ninjas of the Northern Wind. I'd be fine with testing this out, though; depending on the price point, ease of use with teleportation, and the lack of avoiding wounds with Blink (as opposed to Vanish), I think that we have some leeway for still creating a distinct design.
You're right that that's still a valid concern. I think not being able to avoid damage without something to hide behind is a big difference, and also the move is automatic not behind a d20. And then again there's only working against Range (and we may or may not find the need to work against ranged Specials, too).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
Im okay with saying the Primadons made them but I also like the idea of them just being from another plane. Small gripe though.
Yeah either way I'm sure I'll be happier with someone who's better than I at the fiction write-ups fleshing it out.

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  #129  
Old August 19th, 2019, 08:02 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I doubt it'll be able to work agaisnt specials - the ever-problematic Volley would rear its head.
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  #130  
Old August 19th, 2019, 08:16 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

If it's only movement, then I think that it can be workable with Special Attack targeting as well. Powers such as Isamu's Vanish can still let him move, albeit his only works after the attack was already rolled. Assuming that we're fine with the targeting weirdness of Nakitas coupled with stuff like Mimring and Pelloth, I don't think that it's immediately out.
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  #131  
Old August 19th, 2019, 08:53 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Oh, that's true. I was thinking the older version of Blink. Just movement kidn of eliminates weirdness.
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  #132  
Old August 20th, 2019, 01:57 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Quote:
BLINK
When a [Spooky Alien] is targeted for a normal attack from a non-adjacent attacking figure, that [Spooky Alien] may immediately move using the Shift special power.
Multiple problems with this. First it needs to be limited to once a turn, or else they can keep on doing if targeted multiple times. Actually, why would anyone target a figure they are guaranteed not to be able to attack - so this wording would in essence make you not be targeted but also not able to use the SHIFT power, like Thorian. The only circumstance it would trigger is if the power was limited to once a turn and a ranged figure is using 2 less then maximum range then you would target the Spooky Alien, Blink would trigger, then the figure would be retargeted (hopefully with height), but that is super-circumstantial. Maybe add a "after rolling Defense if at least one Blank is rolled..." or a D20 roll like Spider-Man/Venom's Spidey Sense:
Quote:
Phase 11
If a [Spooky Alien] is attacked by an opponent's figure and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-10, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 11-20, [Spooky Alien] takes no damage and may immediately move using his SHIFT Special Power.
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