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  #25  
Old August 17th, 2021, 11:52 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Of course! And I appreciate you sharing your customs with us.

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  #26  
Old August 17th, 2021, 05:07 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

To the best of my knowledge Andre has the stated goal of expanding on the lore of the war-torn far-future earth using the media precedent of “Mad Max” and the C3V precedent of Motley Max. (Whom I assume is also inspired by Mad Max. I, like Necroblade, have never seen Mad Max, so I don’t have that experience to draw from.) Given only the look of the miniatures, the above stated goal, and the precedent of Motley Max’s card and character bio. I can see these miniatures as They Who Laugh, those creatures left out in the wilderness that are referenced in Max’s bio or as a non-specific band of mutant desert scavengers. Either way, the minis fit the theme for me.

I’m not too fussed over the miniature debate. Two flesh toned figures vs three with separate colorings doesn’t make much of a difference to me. I would lean fleshy, but Mutants as a species don’t have much precedent. I’m not anybody who needs convincing on either point. I think both could work but photos of miniatures might change my mind. If you do go the common hero route, I definitely think the best sculpt is the flesh colored one with two knives.

Slight tangent, but Motley Max and Agent Carr seem to be from two different future earths. Max is from a collapsed California while Carr is from an intact New York City. Can the VC creators shed a little light on the timeline here? Or are they from separate versions of Earth’s multiverse?

Now onto the card.

A 2-figure wild mutant marauder common squad that follows Valkrill makes sense to me. Nihilist instead of Wild could be cool. It’s a tie back to the description given in Motley Max’s bio, and it’s an existing personality that, to the best of my knowledge, is only shared with Thanos.

Regarding WITNESS ME!, I agree with Scytale. I don’t get the reference. Of course, since I don’t get the reference, I have to go look it up. *One trip to the Mad Max wiki and one trip to YouTube later.* I now don’t like the name for another reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper
I don't care for the power name "Witness Me!" because I don't think it's communicating a clear theme. How is that working? What story is being told here?
Personally, a power called WITNESS ME! would not be the pseudo-bonding power. It would be a cross between OVEREXTEND ATTACK and the Deathstrike Thrall’s RETURN TO THE GRAVE Special Attack. That or something like the effect of Kuthnak’s INCANTATION OF BOILING BLOOD. The lore behind the witness is that the War Boy goes out in a blaze of glory worthy of Valhalla. Perhaps call it GLORY IN DEATH, or something, since we don’t want to use WITNESS ME! Because Scy and others don’t get the reference.

To be clear, I am not saying this kind of power is necessary for the design, I am saying that this is in theme and a better way of portraying the theme of “Witness Me!”

The to-be-renamed-Warhulk-Hero-pseudo-bonding-power itself is also weird to me. As it runs into the same problem that Deathcommander Mark 3 and the Mohican River Tribe have, in that they don’t get the pseudo-bonding turns if they kill the thing they’re engaged to. Maybe try “if at least one Wasteland Marauder destroyed a figure this turn” instead. It seems to me, more thematic for the Warhulk to want to join a fight already going well than to go “fine let me do it myself.” Although, as I type that out, I am less convinced of that reasoning. I actually think its fine either way. Perhaps change the condition to “if at least one Wasteland Marauder attacked an opponent’s figure this turn.” That covers both bases. I would also be fine if this doesn’t change at all.

Also, Mok is a Warhulk Hero too. So he needs to be considered with any power that grants a Warhulk Hero a free turn. (Maybe restrict to Large Warhulk, if it’s an issue. I don’t think it is.)

Regarding MUTANT SKIN 14, I really like the resistance to terrain effects, it conveys that these guys are used to these desolate climates and therefore can sometimes withstand lava field damage. I think it is worded properly to not give them a 35% chance to ignore Lava. I think Lava automatically destroys and doesn’t inflict wounds so MUTANT SKIN doesn’t apply, which is good.

Regarding INCITE VIOLENCE, I again, agree with Scytale. It severely discourages synergy with the Ogre Warhulk (and with Mok since you don’t want to lose your dwarven gunners in a build with the Wasteland Marauders since you’d probably only run 1 squad of Axegrinders.) I also tend to agree with wriggz in that the power might just be superfluous. With a 2-figure squad the priority needs to be on attacking and getting Warhulk turns, not boosting your Warhulk’s D20 rolls. I doubt you’ll have enough figures to do both consistently.

I like Dad_Scaper’s suggestion of the Common Hero as a solution to a few of the problems he has. As such, I’m going to take a draft pass at the common hero version. It goes in a different direction but, I feel, within the same theme. Of course, this isn’t meant to upstage the design, just to air more ideas. (I asked Andre first, before I posted this in his thread.) Also, anywhere on my card it says “Warhulk Hero” I think “Merciless Hero” could also fit the theme and give a different set of interesting bonding options (Bugbear Basher, Deathstrike Thrall, Emperor Andask, Motley Max, Tetraites, and Viceron the Blood Knight)

Spoiler Alert!


I’ll leave it there, thoughts?

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  #27  
Old August 17th, 2021, 06:22 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vydar_XLIII View Post
Slight tangent, but Motley Max and Agent Carr seem to be from two different future earths. Max is from a collapsed California while Carr is from an intact New York City. Can the VC creators shed a little light on the timeline here? Or are they from separate versions of Earth’s multiverse?
Earth has multiple biomes and cultures now. Why wouldn't it in the future?
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  #28  
Old August 17th, 2021, 07:47 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

There is a tenuous theory that the microcorp agents refer to the 2210 version of risk. If you accept that premis then the world will be scorched by nuclear weapons, over run with corporations and the moon will be colonized. That world would have haves and have nots leading to mega cities where Carr, krav and the twilight clan live and waste lands with Max and...

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  #29  
Old August 17th, 2021, 08:31 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Works for me. Thanks guys!

(I'm also watching Fury Road tonight.)

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  #30  
Old August 17th, 2021, 09:35 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Andre messaged me on Discord asking if I'd be willing to share my thoughts, so here I am!

Regarding the question of whether the design should be a common hero or squad, I agree with DS and others who think that the current design would mechanically struggle to work as a two-man squad. Mechanically its pretty difficult to design two man squads that are effective, and in this case I'd want to see how often a player would end up choosing to forego an attack with the Marauders in order to trigger their bonding. If that situation occurred with any sort of regularity, it would strike me as pretty unthematic.

I think the common hero approach could work, but that would likely require a pretty radical redesign of the power set.

On the other hand, I'd personally not be bothered at all by a 3 man squad, as long as you picked three sculpts that all looked somewhat distinct from each other, to avoid one of them being the odd man out.

Like Scytale, I also don't have a problem with these being severely mutated former humans from Earth 2210+. Wild as a personality works fine, but I agree with Vydar that Nihilist could also work great here and be a nice callback to Motley's bio.

I've already touched on Witness Me! a bit, but I'll also add to what people are saying that the name isn't doing it for me. I'd be fine with just straight Warlord Bonding here, but either way I think a better name could be found. However, I am a bit concerned that bonding with Mok might be too powerful/swingy and would want to see testing results to confirm that synergy was not unfun to play against. If that was an issue, the bonding could always be limited to small, medium, or large warhulk heroes.

I also dislike the name for Mutated Skin 14. I get the idea you're going for, but I don't think it quite works.

As a potential alternative, I quite like the name Survival of the Strangest, but other people may not appreciate the wordplay there as much as me. Another potentially safer option might be Survival Instincts.

Finally, I actually quite like Incite to Violence. Since the +1 is optional, I don't think it discourages pairing with the Ogre Warhulk as much as other people think. The one change I would make is to limit it to working with heroes, as I'm not quite sure how the adjacency requirement would work if there was ever a warhulk squad.

Throwing this all together:

Quote:
WASTELAND MARAUDERS
VALKRILL

Species: MUTANTS (same as Motley Max)
Type: COMMON SQUAD (squad of 3)
Class: MARAUDERS
Personality: NIHILIST

Stats:
L1
M5
R1
A3
D3

Abilities:
WARHULK BONDING
Before taking a turn with the Wasteland Marauders, you may first take a turn with any [medium or large] Warhulk Hero you control.

SURVIVAL OF THE STRANGEST/SURVIVAL INSTINCTS
When a Wasteland Marauder would receive one or more wounds from a terrain effect or special attack, before inflicting those wounds, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 14 or higher, ignore any wounds.

INCITE VIOLENCE
Anytime you roll the 20-sided die for a Warhulk hero's Army Card, you may add 1 to your roll for every Wasteland Marauder that is adjacent to that Warhulk.
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  #31  
Old August 17th, 2021, 10:10 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

We haven't see strait bonding in a while and sometimes the oldies are the goodies.

Everything else Cap said are really great suggestions, but you are moving towards design by committee rather than design by passion.

That said Mutant might be a sticky wicket so you could always compromise and call them lurkers or dwellers from a generic planet like feylund/grut/Valhalla. They will end up bonding with an ogre so it is not like earth mutants are the only option. They basically seem like kobold but in place of dragons they look for the strongest brute to follow.

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  #32  
Old August 18th, 2021, 12:56 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Just chiming in to say that behind the scenes in VC there was a general idea that 2210 took inspiration from Judge Dredd or Dark Future, where there are dystopian megacities dotting an otherwise blasted wasteland hellscape. This allows Carr’s New York to exist while most of California has collapsed. Presumably Los Angeles is a megacity as well, but that’ll be for future units.
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  #33  
Old August 18th, 2021, 01:19 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
Just chiming in to say that behind the scenes in VC there was a general idea that 2210 took inspiration from Judge Dredd or Dark Future, where there are dystopian megacities dotting an otherwise blasted wasteland hellscape. This allows Carr’s New York to exist while most of California has collapsed. Presumably Los Angeles is a megacity as well, but that’ll be for future units.
Sounds like Risk 2210 🙂
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  #34  
Old August 18th, 2021, 01:22 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Ah! Never played it so I’m glad it jives with the soft lore we’ve pulled from that.
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  #35  
Old August 18th, 2021, 01:23 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

I'm loving all the input received so far, and I have a strong vision about this being a squad of at least 2 units (hopefully 3, depending on how the Chief looks). I'm likely going to be simplifying this card by dropping INCITE VIOLENCE and reverting to standard Warhulk Bonding. My question is, do you imagine there ever being a Small or Medium Warhulk in the future? When I think of Warhulk, I picture a Large unit at minimum. Considering Mok is a Warhulk, I'll have to add a size restriction on it. Should I just go "Small, Medium, or Large Warhulk you control"?
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  #36  
Old August 18th, 2021, 02:33 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Pre-Pre-SoV Thread

Could always go with Large exclusively like the Death Chasers do.

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