The Book of Penguin (II)

[Viegon]

I'd prefer no recharge mechanic, to keep the design from getting too complex. My .

[Arkham]

Sounds like that's the best way to go. I'd like to keep him relatively simple. A nice simple yet useful design for the synergy he's meant for, will ultimately give him the best drafting potential.

[Arkham]

For Crime Syndicate, what if we dropped the OM rearrangement, because I don't feel it's absolutely necessary here in terms of usefulness. Instead, we could flesh out the movement of your figures to still give you some means of dealing damage to your opponent. I'm thinking a pack/gang mentality with them, something along the lines of:

CRIME SYNDICATE
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Penguin, you may immediately move up to 4 Criminal or Thief figures you control up to 4 spaces each. After moving figures with Crime Syndicate, for each two figures that ended their movement engaged with an enemy figure, roll one unblockable attack die against that enemy figure. Figures moved by Crime Syndicate do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

The wording could use some touching up to get the point/mechanic across, but the theme is there. This allows Penguin's turn sacrifice to not only move figures decently, it gives them a sort of pack like strategy. Get 4 figures adjacent to 1 enemy, you get 2 unblockables against that enemy. Get 2 figures adjacent to 1 enemy, and 2 adjacent to another enemy, 1 unblockable against each enemy.

I think this, tacked with the simpler Greased Palms, makes for an overall interesting design:

GREASED PALMS
Start the game with 3 black Bribe Markers on this card. When a Crime Lord or Mastermind you control is targeted for an attack by a figure without the Valiant, Driven, or Obsessive personality, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and remove a Bribe Marker from this card to ignore that attack.

CRIME LORD COLLUSION
When rolling for initiative, if all your Order Markers are placed on Crime Lord and Mastermind cards, add 4 to your roll, or instead subtract 6 from your roll if Penguin is in play and there are no Order Markers on this card.

CRIME SYNDICATE
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Penguin, you may immediately move up to 4 Criminal or Thief figures you control up to 4 spaces each. After moving figures with Crime Syndicate, for each two figures that ended their movement engaged with an enemy figure, roll one unblockable attack die against that enemy figure. Figures moved by Crime Syndicate do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Thoughts?

[Yodaking]

I don't like the X requirements in addition to the marker burn, just say you may only use the power once per round if you want to limit it to once per round and leave the X alone for someone else to potentially use. On the swarm attack idea, I like the concept and would be open to seeing how it plays.

[Arkham]

Yeah, I was going to ask about the X. I agree on it not being needed, and a once per round could suffice.

[Lazy Orang]

I don't like losing the disengage element to the movement - the idea of being able to extract your guys from a sticky situation felt good to me. I prefer the idea of this guy being subtle, rather than aggressive (unless pissed off - I still like the way the old design allowed him to get pissed off).

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I don't like losing the disengage element to the movement - the idea of being able to extract your guys from a sticky situation felt good to me. I prefer the idea of this guy being subtle, rather than aggressive (unless pissed off - I still like the way the old design allowed him to get pissed off).

The disengage is still there. It's the last line. Typically in powers like this where there's an additional effect from movement that needs to be settled, the disengage aspect is mentioned last.

I just like the idea of Penguin moving criminals and thieves around in packs and potentially dealing out a wound or two in place of his turn. Gives the opponent a desire to start taking down the Criminals and Thieves, but ultimately wanting to get rid of Penguin. Which will be more difficult since he can keep swarming them forcing LEAs. So it really does feel like the opponent is fighting through the mob to get to the boss.

[Viegon]

Originally Posted by Arkham

GREASED PALMS
Start the game with 3 black Bribe Markers on this card. When a Crime Lord or Mastermind you control is targeted for an attack by a figure without the Valiant, Driven, or Obsessive personality, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and remove a Bribe Marker from this card to ignore that attack.

CRIME LORD COLLUSION
When rolling for initiative, if all your Order Markers are placed on Crime Lord and Mastermind cards, add 4 to your roll, or instead subtract 6 from your roll if Penguin is in play and there are no Order Markers on this card.

CRIME SYNDICATE
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Penguin, you may immediately move up to 4 Criminal or Thief figures you control up to 4 spaces each. After moving figures with Crime Syndicate, for each two figures that ended their movement engaged with an enemy figure, roll one unblockable attack die against that enemy figure. Figures moved by Crime Syndicate do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

I really like this version, but I think it could use some trimming:
1) I'd change the personality restriction in Greased Palms to just Vigilantes; I think the theme is a little more clear that way and it's cleaner.
2) I'd drop the "X" mechanic entirely. No need to replace it with a once-per-round restriction, because it's already limited to three total uses each game.
3) The way the autowounds work in Crime Syndicate is too messy in my opinion, I'd rather see it changed to a simple "choose one opponent that's engaged with a moved figure and roll a die" type thing.

Also, Greased Palms should probably trigger off of an actual attack (using the "if at least 1 skull is rolled" wording), and not off of targeting, since you can't really ignore an attack that hasn't happened yet.

Finally, Crime Lord Collusion is ambiguous as to what happens when all your OMs are on Crime Lords/Masterminds but none on Penguin. I'd like to see the triggers reworked for clarity (like the +4 requiring an OM on Penguin's card).

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Viegon

Also, Greased Palms should probably trigger off of an actual attack (using the "if at least 1 skull is rolled" wording), and not off of targeting, since you can't really ignore an attack that hasn't happened yet.

Mechanically I see what you are saying but thematically it plays better for me if he is using his money or influence to prevent the attack completely before it takes place. Once a skull is rolled, the attack has started and so buying them off to stop the attack doesn't come across all that well. Perhaps something like this can achieve both goals?

GREASED PALMS
Start the game with 3 black Bribe Markers on this card. When a Crime Lord or Mastermind you control is targeted for an attack, if the attacking figure is not a Vigilante, before any attack dice are rolled you may remove a Bribe Marker from this card. If you do, the attacking figure's turn immediately ends.

[Arkham]

Alright, so this should address all previously brought up issues:

GREASED PALMS
Start the game with 3 black Bribe Markers on this card. When a Crime Lord or Mastermind you control is targeted for an attack, if the attacking figure is not a Vigilante, before any attack dice are rolled you may remove a Bribe Marker from this card. If you do, the attacking figure's turn immediately ends.

CRIME LORD COLLUSION
When rolling for initiative, if there is at least one Order Marker on this card, and all your Order Markers are on Crime Lord and Mastermind cards, add 4 to your roll. If there are no Order Markers on this card, subtract 6 from your roll.

CRIME SYNDICATE
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Penguin, you may immediately move up to 4 Criminal or Thief figures you control up to 4 spaces each. After moving figures with Crime Syndicate, you may immediately choose one figure that is engaged with a moved figure and roll 1 unblockable attack die against that figure. Figures moved by Crime Syndicate do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

[japes]

I did like the idea of the other Crime Syndicate where you can mobilize early and then in later rounds load up your OM on Penguin and then after turn 1 redistribute those OM.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

I did like the idea of the other Crime Syndicate where you can mobilize early and then in later rounds load up your OM on Penguin and then after turn 1 redistribute those OM.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the "after revealing an OM, you may reorganize all other OMs" ability. It just isn't worth sacrificing a turn to move around 2 numbered OMs and a possible X. Someone like Sage or Captain Marvel definitely have decent OM reorganization powers, but forcing you to take a turn on someone you don't really want to, just to reorganize your later turns, isn't that worth it to me. By turn 1, I'd imagine your choices haven't changed a whole lot on who you want to take a turn with and in what order.

I feel a potential wound caused after moving serves an overall better purpose/usefulness.