The Book of Pyro

[Griffin]

Hama, if you get a chance you should read my Melee Army report. Pyro was smoking hot! I think that 120 is the floor, he might need to go up a tad still.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by Griffin

Hama, if you get a chance you should read my Melee Army report. Pyro was smoking hot! I think that 120 is the floor, he might need to go up a tad still.

True, but that's kind of optimal conditions as he can get smoked vs. ranged opponents that would likely be in an army with KOW. I know he's got some great potential, I just don't know how often that will actually come into play in real games.

We can have him at a floor of 120 for now I suppose and see how he does in combined X-Men army test. I don't mind him going up some if he can do good against a more balanced opponent's army.

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by Hahma

True, but that's kind of optimal conditions as he can get smoked vs. ranged opponents that would likely be in an army with KOW. I know he's got some great potential, I just don't know how often that will actually come into play in real games.

We can have him at a floor of 120 for now I suppose and see how he does in combined X-Men army test. I don't mind him going up some if he can do good against a more balanced opponent's army.

All true, I agree with you. I think that 120 is just safe for someone who could find several different ways to reach optimal conditions.

Also, I kinda had a theme test fail IMO when engulf and Living Flame was working half of the time on figures that were standing in water. I am not sure if those two abilities should work while the targeted figure is in water... just not sure if I want to change it. Any thoughts?

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by Griffin

All true, I agree with you. I think that 120 is just safe for someone who could find several different ways to reach optimal conditions.

Also, I kinda had a theme test fail IMO when engulf and Living Flame was working half of the time on figures that were standing in water. I am not sure if those two abilities should work while the targeted figure is in water... just not sure if I want to change it. Any thoughts?

Shoot some flame at my head while I'm standing in water and I bet it's going to still hurt.

[Griffin]

I hear ya.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'm with Hahma on it being just fine thematically. And with all the vulnerability/resistance stuff, there's enough extra stuff going on with that power already.
I'm completely sold on 120 points. I think he compares favorably to Kaemon Awa. They have about the same survivability, Kaemon has better normal range, but slightly worse range on his special attack, Kaemon's special attack is better against heroes and maybe a tad more reliable against squads, but Pyro's special attack has a higher ceiling against squads, Kaemon's normal attack is better, their move is about the same, Pyro's Engulf is similar to Counter Strike but Counter Strike probably has a higher ceiling versus heroes while Engulf does damage a little more consistently (but not like a lot more consistently). I really think they're pretty close to on the same page with Kaemon maybe having an overall edge in consistency and potential against other heroes.
So unless Griff's last test disputes it, I'm happy to vote yea on 120 right now.

[Griffin]

I just finished up my results, and I would be happy with John at 120 but I prefer 115. I would prefer this drop by five for this reason: most of the games that Pyro is going to be in is going to be a Hero based army, and that is his primary weakness or cause for loss of points, besides, I think that Kaemon Awa is slightly better than him.

I propose that we finalize his cost at 115.

[Hahma]

Yea

Those were kind of my reasons too Griff. Don't know if he's always going to be able to lay waste to a bunch of squadies all lined up in a row for him.

[IAmBatman]

I think Kaemon Awa is slightly better than him as well. However, I think Kaemon's like an A- hero for his price. I think Pyro would be about a B or B+ at 120. I think at 115, he goes up to an A- or so.
I think I prefer him at 120 for that reason. Any way I can convince you to change the proposal to that?

[Griffin]

Not to power struggle with you here, but I really think that considering his power ranking is not what should define our pricing. I think the results should do that. And the results show that he is slightly less dependable that KA.

Any way I could get you to vote Yes for 115?

[IAmBatman]

My results and I think some of the others make him seem better than Kaemon Awa, IMO. If we have to err in one direction, I'd rather err towards overcosted rather than undercosted. So, I'll let some others weigh in here. I'm not comfortable passing him at 115.

[NecroBlade]

I'd rather err on overcosted than undercosted as well. Also, we're pushing a lot of these costs lower and lower (which is fine, but overall the X-Men set is looking a LOT cheaper than DC). I don't think I'm ready to vote him in at 115 either.