Workshop Thread

[Sir Heroscape]

I like the changes overall, but there is now prime real estate for Raelin to perch on the back hex of the lvl 3 in the center. While she's not covered by jungle, that spot will take some time before she's engaged by the opponent AND she can cover both glyphs and all the center. While that isn't necessarily game breaking, that is the natural spot to put her every time. Not sure it's enough to downvote it at this stage, but we've seen our fair share of maps with similar issues and it's proven to be abusable...so I have hesitation.

I'll hold my vote to hear what others have to say.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I like the changes overall, but there is now prime real estate for Raelin to perch on the back hex of the lvl 3 in the center. While she's not covered by jungle, that spot will take some time before she's engaged by the opponent AND she can cover both glyphs and all the center. While that isn't necessarily game breaking, that is the natural spot to put her every time. Not sure it's enough to downvote it at this stage, but we've seen our fair share of maps with similar issues and it's proven to be abusable...so I have hesitation.

I'll hold my vote to hear what others have to say.

2 questions:

1. I know it's sometimes sketchy, but might the Jungle Tree block LoS to some small/medium figures on the glyph to her left?
2. Could the map flow ok without the glyphs? Originally I added them to make sure the action flowed off of the 2 hills but with a center level 3 area now and the map being so tight, are they necessary?

[Sir Heroscape]

1. No not really. Jungle very rarely fully obscures a figure entirely.
2. Potentially, I think you'd need to test it a couple times and see what you prefer. If the glyphs are preset, weaker glyphs like Ulinavia/Lodin, then they can be useful with the right armies, but aren't particularly the focus, and then Raelin's perch doesn't hurt as much since she's not protecting very important glyphs. That's how I like to sometimes make maps...i.e. allow for some strong points, but make glyphs weak so you don't compound the issue.

[Flash_19]

@heroscaper2010
Thanks for utilizing this thread! As you know I was not an original judge on this map - and I've never played it before. Just be aware of that...

This second version does seem better than the first based on spending a few minutes studying them, but I do worry about a couple things:
1) The spot pointed out by Sir H is a valid concern. I am concerned by a height position where Raelin can cover both glyphs - however, that does come with a potential risk of being overextended towards the middle of the map. I'm not sure how easily contested that spot will prove to be. I personally would like to see that center flow just a little bit better so that those high spots can be contested easier, but it doesn't look too bad.
2) Development still looks easier towards the right of the map, and ranged armies are likely going to head that direction. The jungle is helping to mitigate the power of ranged armies moving to the right - but it makes the map predictable and play the same way each time.
3) I don't love the single hex adjacent to the glyph and the palm tree. It might seem small, but that one hex feels like an unnecessary speed bump that bogs down a part of the map that is hurt by being bogged down - especially considering that figures have to stop on glyphs.

Those are my thoughts. Having said that, I think I'm willing to review it as is, but I do think the map can still be improved.

EDIT: I'm definitely curious to hear from @Nomad and @BiggaBullfrog though

[Nomad]

I originally voted to induct Durgeth Swamps - I like the first version. With this version, I am not as concerned about the spot in the middle that has Sir H worried for a Raelin perch - I believe that she would be overextended at that point. My biggest concern is that there are L3 hexes covered by palm trees on the edges of the map. Other than that, the map looks decent to me. Flash pointed out the single hex speed bump - removing that might improve army development. I concur with the other judges. A couple of tweaks will improve the map.

[Sheep]

I'd like to point out that the single hex next to the glyph is the same spot that the original version had a 2-hex and a jungle and army development was not an issue. It can be reached by 4 move figures in 2 turns and provides a necessary attack point to the glyph (and is cover by jungle so range camping the 7 hex aren't as effective).

[Sheep]

Durgeth Swamps - .hsc

[Sir Heroscape]

I think I like the changes, definitely feels more open...though that right side of the start zone is really going to be tough to develop units out of very well. I think that needs to be opened back up.

EDIT:
Also, maybe try shifting the 2-hexers in 1 space and then shifting over the Jungle into that "pocket" I point out in the below image. That does a couple things:
1) Frees up movement for the area near the glyphs
2) keep the jungle from protecting central height points
3) makes the central height less likely for a Raelin to perch (isolated, lots of same-level attacks, and overextended)
4) Dragons and other double-spacers can now have 2 same-level spaces to be attacked.

[Flash_19]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I think I like the changes, definitely feels more open...though that right side of the start zone is really going to be tough to develop units out of very well. I think that needs to be opened back up.

EDIT:
Also, maybe try shifting the 2-hexers in 1 space and then shifting over the Jungle into that "pocket" I point out in the below image. That does a couple things:
1) Frees up movement for the area near the glyphs
2) keep the jungle from protecting central height points
3) makes the central height less likely for a Raelin to perch (isolated, lots of same-level attacks, and overextended)
4) Dragons and other double-spacers can now have 2 same-level spaces to be attacked.

I agree with Sir H about the right side - I think you overcompensated just a little too much. I think overall those other suggestions are good ones too, though I'm not sold on the recommended placement for the jungle piece. I think there's probably a better spot for it.

[Sheep]

I disagree with the right side being hard to develop. It’s still 2 turns to middle but now instead of one turn to height it’s 2 turns with 4/5 move. The water is easily used as a stopping point before moving directly to height and all level 0 spaces on that side are next to Jungle along with a lot of level 1 spaces. The 7-hex is still the main strong point on that side so making it 2 turns to get there for some figures is not a bad thing when moving to the center and far rock remains the same.

I could swap the most-center water for the back SZ swamp though since the center lvl2 7-hexes can’t be reached by 6 move or under figures anyway and all that water space does is stop 4-move figures near the back of the SZ from getting to the center lvl2 area.

Moving the jungle pieces to that spot gives the 7-hex some cover and removes a crucial frontal attack spot.

[Flash_19]

Originally Posted by heroscaper2010

I could swap the most-center water for the back SZ swamp though since the center lvl2 7-hexes can’t be reached by 6 move or under figures anyway and all that water space does is stop 4-move figures near the back of the SZ from getting to the center lvl2 area.

Moving the jungle pieces to that spot gives the 7-hex some cover and removes a crucial frontal attack spot.

If you feel strongly about the water there, then feel free to leave it. I feel like I'd still be open to reviewing it. But my initial thought was to essentially do what you suggested. Just swap one of them out.

And yes, those were both problems I had with the change in jungle placement - so I completely agree with you there.

[Sheep]

Thank you judges for your input. I have made a final edit for Durgeth Swamps and would like votes to review (or not).

Durgeth Swamps - .hsc