High Def. or High Life?

playa1 · #1 November 14th, 2006, 11:41 AM

Which do you prefer and feel is the best play on the board? It seems the deathwalkers are ignored despite their great defensive capabilities, and I can understand: Once I took out DW9000 with a single arrow from Syvarris on the first round of a small game. It just kind of killed the whole point of the game. On the other hand, I once shot at Brunak about 9 or 10 times without hitting him which really ticked me off in another game. His defense is pretty impressive.
Have you found that high life low def. is as effective or better? I've been having good luck with Morsbane lately. At first I thought his special ability and def. of 2 made him a target that wasn't worth the trouble, but lately he has had the staying power to try his Negation Wand five or six times before he is mortally wounded or killed. His life of 6 seems like it makes him worthwhile. What experiences have others had? I've been afraid to play Braxis (I just got the figure) because of his low defense and unimpressive life for a dragon; my experiences with Su-Bak-Na have always been pretty disastrous.

Tiberius · #2 November 14th, 2006, 12:14 PM

I find the big figures become targets more easily than the small guys, so a dragon with high life is going down before, say Morsbane who few consider that big of a threat. For me personally, I will take the defense, and low life (but not 1 life).

Eclipse · #3 November 14th, 2006, 12:25 PM

Life disappears in permanent chunks. Defense stops permanent damage entirely. In my experience, having high life with low defense just means you add a lot of wounds at once and still die very quickly. The only advantage to high life is that you can't suffer a single turn death in most cases.

Aldin · #4 November 14th, 2006, 01:02 PM

I think you have to hit a threshold for defense after which life is king. That threshold for me is around four, though anything that either gives automatic shields or doubles shields would lower that. My reasoning is that the thing you have to do most often is block a single skull. With four defense you block a single skull more than 80% of the time (with diminishing returns thereafter). At that point I just want as much ability to soak up overflow as I can.

Looking at it another way - life is more flexible than defense. Both a 4D8L and a 9D1L laugh at a 2 die attack, but the 4D8L is a LOT less scared when Drake, Jotun or Carr come calling.

~Aldin

Eclipse · #5 November 14th, 2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldin

I think you have to hit a threshold for defense after which life is king. That threshold for me is around four, though anything that either gives automatic shields or doubles shields would lower that. My reasoning is that the thing you have to do most often is block a single skull. With four defense you block a single skull more than 80% of the time (with diminishing returns thereafter). At that point I just want as much ability to soak up overflow as I can.

Looking at it another way - life is more flexible than defense. Both a 4D8L and a 9D1L laugh at a 2 die attack, but the 4D8L is a LOT less scared when Drake, Jotun or Carr come calling.

~Aldin

At the same time, I find DEF deals with multiple attacks better than life. I'm less afraid of 9D1L being attacked by a squad than I am of 4D8L. I've seen 4D8L go down VERY quickly to a swarm, but 9D1L continues to ignore a full assault (right up until it doesn't....).

Aldin · #6 November 14th, 2006, 01:50 PM

I guess the best of both worlds would be something like a 7D4L - good thing there aren't any figures like that

Like you said on the 9D1L - all it takes is a single whiff. AND the more life you have the more likely you are to benefit from Kelda (the glyph and the fig).

~Aldin

CupidsArt · #7 November 14th, 2006, 02:06 PM

High Def or High Life....I thought this was a thread about the evils of the electronics age versus the joys of naturism,

deadeyedan42 · #8 November 14th, 2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupidsArt

High Def or High Life....I thought this was a thread about the evils of the electronics age versus the joys of naturism,

Me to!

1Mmirg · #9 November 14th, 2006, 02:54 PM

First off, I'll agree that a blend of the two is best (a unit like Brunak is fairly ideal--and, I have found, overlooked). I also agree that Def 4 is about the minimum to have any lasting power--one reason that Denrick is so popular.

Back to Morsbane, I have only played Morsbane twice and the first time my opponent was deathly afraid of his potentially and focused on him with high intensity--he died in like two attacks, but it was Nilfheim who came after him--oh well

The second time, he lasted longer and had several attempts to use his ability (but whiffed every single time--costing me the game in the longer run of things--he was just a complete waste of turn markers). Anyone have any better luck with Morsbane? Any tips for making him?

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand, his life definitely didn't do a lot for him. I will still strongly prefer units with greater defense. (Unless, like the orcs, they are just cheap and largely expendable.)

The cowboys fit in here too. These are great units, but only one on a small team, a couple on a larger one.

Snotwalker 8000 · #10 November 14th, 2006, 03:12 PM

I agree with the apparent consensus that a fair mix of both (4+D and 5+L) is the way to go. Q9 and Brunak do both exemplify the ideal mix. When a unit has 7+D, it doesn't need more than 3 or 4 life to be a typically longlifed figure.

I never trust the blue dice, so I'm always viewing DW8K and DW9K as paper tigers, even with their 8 or 9 Def. Whiffing, even with that many dice rolling, happens way too frequently.

On the flip side, I get nervous taking a high life/low D fig as well. Take Krug for example. 8 Life seems like a lot, but with only 3D, Once Krug starts down that slippery slope of wounds, he goes down fast. (Granted, one WANTS krug to get hurt, but stopping the hurt... that's the hard part! 3D or less just leads to quick death, even with high life.

4D or more is solid. 5 Life or more is solid (but can go down to 3 or 4 if the D gets to 7 or higher)

playa1 · #11 November 14th, 2006, 03:52 PM

Like I said, Morsbane has worked well for me lately. Mainly because of his high life (not the naturism thing, though he looks the type). In one game against Charos and several squads of 4th Mass., I took out his couterattack ability and proceeded to cut him to ribbons with my minions. In the last game I played against a marro army, his abilities failed several times early in the game and I had to kill Su-Bak-Na with heavy loss of life on my part. However, just when it looked like I was done for, (mostly because Me-Burq-Sa was wasting my minions one by one), Morsbane rolls a 20 and kills him! He then went on (because you can attack and use the negation wand) to kill several drones and render the clone warriors cloneless (if that's even a word). I lost the game, but it was close!

playa1 · #12 November 14th, 2006, 04:04 PM

Eclipse Said: "At the same time, I find DEF deals with multiple attacks better than life. I'm less afraid of 9D1L being attacked by a squad than I am of 4D8L. I've seen 4D8L go down VERY quickly to a swarm, but 9D1L continues to ignore a full assault (right up until it doesn't....)."

--As far as what eclipse is saying, i couldn't disagree more. The only way to get rid of deathwalker is to pound him with little attacks until he gets the unlucky roll! On the other hand, if you try to hit him only with high attack figures, you're never going to get through his high def, or at least it will take too long.
I've never seen it, but I've often thought that having a bunch of rats swarm all over DW9000 would be a cool fight. I bet the rats would win, and sooner than most of us think. Multiple attacks and as many attacks as possible is a lot more effective than a few more attack dice!

Oh, and how do you do that little white-boxy like thing???