Race for the presidency political discussion thread

[Browncoat]

I will post here because I care about politics, and I also care about spreading the word about how I feel about it. After all, some people are just misinformed. In case you haven't read any of my political ramblings in the past, let me start off by saying that I'm a Conservative. That doesn't automatically align me with the Republican party, but does on most occasions.

Huckabee getting the nod in Iowa is no surprise to me. He's probably the most "friendly" Republican candidate, which is also probably why he won there in the first place. Personally, I don't care much for Huckabee. He's too moderate on issues that I feel strongly about.

Obama won for the same reasons. I think Edwards is probably the more likable candidate for the Democrats, but he's trying to come off a little too likable. It seems that in the minds of most Democrats, this race is between Hillary and Obama. He's getting more votes for the sole reason that he's not Hillary.

[jaques]

I would respectfully disagree on the reason for Obama's success, Browncoat. Some Democrats are worried about Hillary's electability, it's true, and some dislike her almost as much as conservatives dislike her.

But Obama won huge among young people, and I think the fact that he is young, a minority, and promises to change the tenor of our political dialogue was the key factor.

If it was just the "not Hillary" factor, he and Edwards would logically have been much closer, I would think.

[Onion Knight]

I would categorize myself the same way, Browncoat. I'm conservative as well. I agree with Jaques assesment of what is appearing to be the Obama phenomenon. I've been following the election closely and Obama is a very moving candidate. I love to listen to him (and his wife also gave a great speech this week.) My problem is that I disagree with him on almost every issue. I feel that he is wrong on taxes, abortion, Iraq, immigration, etc. But, man, I want to love him. I can only imagine the effect he has on those who agree with his policies. I do think that he has a core set of beliefs and though I may disagree with him, I respect him. I do not feel that way about Hillary or Edwards.

On the other side...
This my first election in which I've felt like there is no "complete" conservative, among the top tier candidates. Thompson is probably the closest to fitting the mold, but I feel that he is unelectable.
Currently, I'm undecided.

Does anyone else feel this way?

[Menchy]

I think we should all just vote for Ron Paul and call it a day.

[Onion Knight]

Originally Posted by Menchy

I think we should all just vote for Ron Paul and call it a day.

I like Ron Paul's limited government mindset, but I feel that his foreign policy stance (pull out of all of the Middle East) is unreasonable.

BTW, every time someone says Ron Paul, I picture RuPaul running for Prez.

[Dread Pirate Fooflesnort]

Originally Posted by Codeman

That is somewhat true .... however the percentage of commercials we will stil see is insignificant from what we where just bomarded with. They bought up almost all the local ad space/time.

Sometimes I'm really glad I don't watch TV and only listen to public radio stations.

[Browncoat]

I will reserve my true opinions of Barack Hussein Obama. I can't say too much about him without being offensive. I honestly hope he ends up being the Democratic candidate, because I believe he will be the easiest to defeat. How a Muslim (and one schooled in radical Islam) can become a candidate for President in these times is simply beyond my comprehension.

Ron Paul is a certifiable nutjob. He's a Libertarian that switched his party, and his ideals make him more of a Democrat as far as I can see. I like his fiscal ideas, and he supports the Fair Tax, which is a plus...but he has no clue when it comes to foreign affairs or much else.

I will keep pulling for Fred Thompson.

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Browncoat

I will reserve my true opinions of Barack Hussein Obama

By referring to his entire name you are obviously not an Obama fan, so you don't need to "reserve" anything. I do think it is odd and a little low when I see folks doing this. It's like a right-wing implication that you must have the right name or the right God to be American. His name doesn't bother me. If I'm off the mark on you Browncoat, please correct me. It won't hurt my feelings as I am not really what you'd call an Obama supporter, but I will admit that I am impressed with him and would like to see more folks like him running for office.

[Taelord]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

By referring to his entire name you are obviously not an Obama fan, so you don't need to "reserve" anything. I do think it is odd and a little low when I see folks doing this. It's like a right-wing implication that you must have the right name or the right God to be American. His name doesn't bother me. If I'm off the mark on you Browncoat, please correct me. It won't hurt my feelings as I am not really what you'd call an Obama supporter, but I will admit that I am impressed with him and would like to see more folks like him running for office.

While I am not a Obama fan either I take offense in people being upset about his name. He did not choose it. It's not his fault. Religion on the other hand can be a problem. I really don't care if your an aethiest or a muslim or a buhddist. But if it changes your outlook on things to a stance I don't like then I'm going to have a problem. For instance, since aethiests do not believe in God or an afterlife, they may not have as much of a consience. I am not saying aethiests are bad, but it possible that it changes their views.

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Browncoat

How a Muslim (and one schooled in radical Islam) can become a candidate for President in these times is simply beyond my comprehension.

I think you are wrong BC Obama is not a Muslim:

A theme of Obama's keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, and the title of his 2006 book, The Audacity of Hope, was inspired by his pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright.[135] In Chapter 6 of the book, titled "Faith," Obama writes that he "was not raised in a religious household." He describes his mother, raised by non-religious parents, as detached from religion, yet "in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I have ever known." He describes his Kenyan father as "raised a Muslim," but a "confirmed atheist" by the time his parents met, and his Indonesian stepfather as "a man who saw religion as not particularly useful." The chapter details how Obama, in his twenties, while working with local churches as a community organizer, came to understand "the power of the African American religious tradition to spur social change." Obama writes: "It was because of these newfound understandings—that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved—that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized."

Although I doubt it would change your mind, but at least you aren't spreading bum info without somebody piping up.

[InfinityMax]

Originally Posted by Taelord

For instance, since aethiests do not believe in God or an afterlife, they may not have as much of a consience.

You know, this statement does not give much credit to religious people. Are you saying that they only have a conscience because they're scared? Does that not suggest that they are actually worse people than atheists, who act on a simple knowledge of right and wrong without having to be intimidated by long-term consequences?

Obviously, I disagree. I don't think religion gives you any kind of edge when it comes to right and wrong. I think that some of the most heinous, ugly, rotten people in the world have been religious, and most of those actually used their religion to justify some horrible misdeeds. And I'm not talking Spanish Inquisition - this kind of thing happens today.

Conscience is a lot bigger than religion - atheists still know right from wrong, and tend to act on it. I think it is insulting to religious people to say that they're more moral because they're scared of God. Oh, and it's asinine.

As far as Obama's religion, I didn't have any problem with his religion when I thought he was a Muslim, and I find it offensive that anyone would. That's the worst religious bigotry I've ever seen on people I actually know - and believe me, I've seen my share.

Picking on the man because of his name is just taking cheap shots. That's grade-school playground BS.

The most ironic thing about seeing me defend Obama is that I don't actually like him. I hope Edwards pulls a come-from-behind and gets the nod, because I like his politics. I don't like Obama. I think he's a glad-handing fake, almost as bad as Fred Thompson (now THAT dude is a phony). But I don't have any issue with his religion or his name.

[Taelord]

Originally Posted by InfinityMax

You know, this statement does not give much credit to religious people. Are you saying that they only have a conscience because they're scared? Does that not suggest that they are actually worse people than atheists, who act on a simple knowledge of right and wrong without having to be intimidated by long-term consequences?

Obviously, I disagree. I don't think religion gives you any kind of edge when it comes to right and wrong. I think that some of the most heinous, ugly, rotten people in the world have been religious, and most of those actually used their religion to justify some horrible misdeeds. And I'm not talking Spanish Inquisition - this kind of thing happens today.

Conscience is a lot bigger than religion - atheists still know right from wrong, and tend to act on it. I think it is insulting to religious people to say that they're more moral because they're scared of God. Oh, and it's asinine.

As far as Obama's religion, I didn't have any problem with his religion when I thought he was a Muslim, and I find it offensive that anyone would. That's the worst religious bigotry I've ever seen on people I actually know - and believe me, I've seen my share.

Picking on the man because of his name is just taking cheap shots. That's grade-school playground BS.

The most ironic thing about seeing me defend Obama is that I don't actually like him. I hope Edwards pulls a come-from-behind and gets the nod, because I like his politics. I don't like Obama. I think he's a glad-handing fake, almost as bad as Fred Thompson (now THAT dude is a phony). But I don't have any issue with his religion or his name.

I didn't say that aethiests have no consience, I was merely stating that people that believe in an afterlife know they need to behave. I'm not saying aethiests do horrible things because they think there are no consequinces. I am saying that I would not vote for an aethiest that had that view. I would not for a Christian who acted the same way. I am saying that religion CAN be a problem, not that it is.