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Official Units Discussion of official HeroScape units |
View Poll Results: Which unit is better? | |||
Nilfheim | 35 | 76.09% | |
Quahon | 11 | 23.91% | |
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll |
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#25
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Re: Unit Debate #71 Nilfheim vs Quahon
In my tournaments games where Nilf has been played (wether it's by me or my opponent) he has 7 wins and 8 losses.
Now Quahon is blasting a 100% winrate at 6 wins and 0 loses. Most if this was online and in my experience players are MUCH better online, like it's not even close. First because players have regular training and after 6 month to 1 year of online play you become super skilled, and secondly because as you stated they have a full week to prep for the game so basic mistakes like getting the machup wrong will happen very rarely. I only track my games not every game in the world sorry, so I can't deliver you more stats to you but it's just my impression but I am sure it's true. We could spend an afternoon tracking everything but I bet you anything you want that Quahon has a much better winrate than Nilf, no matter what the format, build, map etc... is. Granted, part of that is because Quahon is underestimated while Nilf is overestimated but still I feel part of that is because Quahon is actually better. I've had numerous game where the Nilf player was like "huh If had Quahon instead of Nilf it would be so much better here" whereas it just does not happen in a Quahon game. The situations where Ice Shards could hit 3 figures while Lightning Breath could not are extremly rare, it basically never happens, whereas the opposite is like common. Lightning Breath is just much much better than Ice Shards and the little added survavibility and move of Nilf just does not make up for it. As you stated, the gameplay of any dragon, is basically "shoot at multiple stuff while being in security" and in my experience Quahon is better at that than Nilfheim. The only instance where Nilf is better is vs stuff like Cyprien where his 6 attack and 4 defense really is useful vs Quahon 5 attack 3 defense. But if you play Quahon with spiders you Can afford stuff like Sujoah/Wyverns to take care of stuff like Cyprien. I'm not sure you realize how much the spiders build is strong, at first I was like "huh Rae+GSW is obviously better" but after playing with and against it multiples times aswell as watching it multiple times I actually think the spider build is the powerhouse for Quahon. Last edited by Foudzing; May 28th, 2020 at 06:37 AM. |
#26
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Re: Unit Debate #71 Nilfheim vs Quahon
Quahon is a she.
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#27
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Re: Unit Debate #71 Nilfheim vs Quahon
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However, against more range-heavy armies, Nilfheim does a lot better. That extra point of defense and extra pip of range can be enormously significant, and ranged builds (outside of a few like 'trons) aren't built to engage the dragon. I have a very good shot of winning my spearmen vs. Greenscale matchup in the online Utah event if I replace my opponent's Nilfheim with Quahon, because Quahon wouldn't have been able to ping Raelin down without stepping off of height. I could have positioned a spearman 4 spaces from Raelin and forced difficult decisions. Quote:
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#28
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Re: Unit Debate #71 Nilfheim vs Quahon
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Yeah, I think I still favor Nilfheim. The 4 defense is mainly what wins it for me, and I think the 6 move has significance. Their specials are pretty even. I think the flexibility and limitations of each’s range/setups have their pros and cons, either a radius of 5 or a string that can reach 9 but needs to be aligned properly, that seems even to me. Quahon rolls once for multiple and Nilf rolls 3 times but can get bogged down to rolling less....yeah I think if greenscales or rats or other things for screens didn’t exist then I see the obvious reasoning for Quahon there, but with screening by a good player and Nilfheim abusing his movement, getting bogged down can be lessened quite a bit. The 5 range on SA and 6 move help with this too, I think Quahon will get bogged down more with her numbers (not that it matters much for her, but just noting playing Nilfheim isn’t the exact same experience if you’re theorizing switching dragons around in games). Quahon has larger peaks with her SA, but with Nilfheim’s three attacks of 4 at 5 range, you consistently have large enough peaks that take care of most of the things you go up against. So I think what I’m getting at is the areas where Quahon appears very advantageous, Nilfheim can compensate enough where it’s not that much of an advantage. With all that being said though Quahon is still a beast and I think it’s very close. She has maybe the most powerful turns within plausible luck out of any unit, besides maybe the hydra. I haven’t played that much of her especially with spiders in the mix, so I’m pretty open minded. There’s a lot going on in this debate - Nilf+Greenscales, Nilf+other, Quahon+Spiders, Quahon+Greenscales, Quahon+other. I really haven’t played with the Quahon predator build, I more thought she brought the spiders up much higher but I didn’t know/think it was at the greenscale level, but it looks like it’s high enough that it’s in the discussion for sure. A big Lightning Breath and an Entangling Web hit (plus spider attacks) in a single turn is crazy powerful, as is big Lightning Breath and just three additional attacks (spiders or greenscales). It’s a very close call. I give it to Nilf but I view them as in the same tier, and close in the same tier. So either is fine with me. Kinda like Knights vs Heavies. But I really have to play her and against her more to be honest. Last edited by Cleon; May 31st, 2020 at 04:51 AM. |
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