Frostgrave, Halo Ground Command and other tabletop minis

[japes]

Originally Posted by TREX

What game mechanics on this thread that really can translate to any genre is frostgrave. I am going to get into playing the walking dead all out war soon as well but it really is a "Zombie" game. I have a ton of stuff for it already, just not painted yet. I guess you could do head to head games without zombies but that's kind of the point with this one. Thing is, with frostgrave, or Ghost archipelago, you really can fight all kinds of miniatures. They have the ones in the books but you can (and I will) add more to my beastiary for the game. @Hahma , I'm cleaning the workshop again to make way for more crafting. I already put some ideas together for my walking dead scope of terrain. It should be pretty fun. I'm going to go for a been apocolypse for a while approach instead of doing newer looking houses and what not.

It's the CO-OP without needing a manager for the antagonist that I was looking for. Something to let my son and I play on a team against some AI bad guy. Does frostgrave fit that?

[TREX]

@japes , it can fit. You just have to make the enemies/monsters have a target. They move, try to attack the target. If they cant, attack something they can, if they cant, move again towards the target. They already have a solo/coop campaign in the dark alchemy/frostgrave folio book. I'm in the process of putting together a coop campaign for it. I'm also adding two additional wizard classes with spells to the roster. Jedi/Sith. Along with stats for troopers with blasters and such. Much the same as the ranged bow/crossbowman. It will all fit together nicely. I'll post it here when I'm done. I'm already designing a bunch of custom monsters for my campaign. Many will use heroscape models.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by japes

I've thought of that as well but the beauty of the AI system as far as I can tell works because of a "dumb" and slow mass of enemies. Justifying Aliens with the skill to reach this planet but be slow and dumb enough to not see a person sneaking by ruins it...

Thanks Tornado! And Japes is right, as this AI system is based on dumb walkers, as in the comic and TV show. Though they aren't exactly slow. The humans have 2 options for movement, either a Sneak, which is up to 4 inches, or a Run, which is up to 8 inches. The difference is that when you Run, you make Noise, and the nearest walker within 10 inches of where you ended that Run, will move in a straight line toward that character. So with a move of 6 inches, they can get to you if they have a straight path. But if there is anything in the way, they will stop when bumping into it. However, if they started that turn already "bumped" against a piece of terrain, then they will move around it via the shortest path to get to the survivor making noise. Though if they bump into something again, they will stop. Additionally, at the start of the Event phase, which is after the action phase, you check to see if any survivor is within the Kill Zone of any walkers. The Kill Zone template is like a CD and you place the hole over the walker and if the template covers any part of a survivor's base (basically 2 inches from walker base), the walker will move adjacent to that survivor "if" it can get to them with its 6 inch move. So it would have to have a clean move and not bump into anything on the way, or it won't move. But if it is against an obstacle already and the survivor is on the other side of it, the walker will walk around it to engage the survivor if it can do so in a 6 inch move. So while they are dumb, they can get around pretty quick if you aren't paying attention. And then there are Event cards that will move them as well.

Originally Posted by Tornado

What about a swarm?
Rats, spiders, insects.

The aliens could be a lead force sent in to wipe out the humans.
Like introducing a new predator to take out an invasive species.
The aliens send in the 'wolves' first.

They could be a lost race from underground. We tunnel too deep and unleash them.

This would require a lot of customization, as the AI is pretty specific to what walkers do, as do the cards in the Event deck. Though walkers can swarm if you aren't careful, especially when playing 1v1.

Originally Posted by japes

It's the CO-OP without needing a manager for the antagonist that I was looking for. Something to let my son and I play on a team against some AI bad guy. Does frostgrave fit that?

@TREX , with regards to your other zombie types, you might want to indeed play the game as intended first. The rules make it so that they are reasonably easy to deal with 1v1, though you can still roll bad and just push them back an inch, only knock them down and back an inch, or you can lose the melee and take a wound, or even worse, you can get bit, which wounds you as normal, but at the end of each subsequent round, you have to roll the 50/50 die to see if you take another wound from the bite, as it has a chance to accelerate your demise.

There are 3 types of combat dice in the game, red, white and blue. The red dice are the weakest and the blue dice are the strongest. A single walker only rolls a single red die in melee, though it still has a chance to bite you. If you are in melee with 2 walkers, the 2nd walker will contribute 2 more red dice, for a total of 3 against you. If going against 3 walkers, the 3rd will contribute 3 more dice for a total of 6. So just plain walkers can scale pretty nasty when you go against more than 1. So if you bring in different types of walkers, then you may have to keep that in mind if there are some more powerful walkers. Additionally, the Event cards will have you be able to move walkers. When playing 1v1 or team v team, then you will move a walker to mess up your opponent. But when playing solo or co-op, you should move a walker toward one of your own survivors. It's up to your discretion and if you want to choose a far away one or closer one, depending on how difficult and/or thematic you want the game to be. So that's another consideration with custom zombies.

Aside from the walkers, the threat dial is your enemy as well. It starts on 1 and if it ever hits 18, the game is immediately over and in solo or co-op, you lose, but I believe in 1v1, the player with the most objective tokens would be considered the winner, so a player may want the threat to go up if they are in a good position with objectives. The threat will go up during the melee phase if there is any melee. It will go up +1 no matter how many melees there are, as long as there is at least 1. For solo and co-op, the threat should go up +1 at the end of each round. Events during the Event phase will have some cards raise the threat. If you cause Mayhem by shooting a gun or using some other type of item that creates Mayhem, it immediately adds +1 to the threat dial. There is the Hold Nerve action that is available as one of your two actions per character, and that is a 50/50 die roll to see if you succeed in reducing the threat by 1. A Tactician character automatically succeeds when using the Hold Nerve action.

Tying in with the threat, is the fact that characters will have a variety level of Nerve, low, medium and high. The threat dial is broken down into All Quiet, Low, Medium and High sectors. If the threat is at a level higher than the Nerve level of the character at the start of its turn, you have to roll the Panic die to see how they can act. They may run the opposite direction as the nearest walker, or make noise, which will attract a walker to move 6 inches toward them, or they may be limited to actions that don't make noise, or only to 1 action. So that's another thing to consider with adding different types of zombies, as it's not just a blast fest as with some other games, because when you create Mayhem when shooting in this game, it will attract all walkers toward you that are in a 10 inch radius, as well as increase the threat. So that's something else to consider.

As far as Frostgrave goes, there is a solo/co-op campaign in the Frostgrave Folio book. I haven't played it yet though. With a quick glance, it seems like you and your co-op partner have warbands that are at a truce for that campaign, so they can't attack each other. You will only be able to bring in your Wizard and a couple of your warband members per scenario. If a soldier is reduced to 0 health, the can't return to the campaign, even if they get a postgame roll that keeps them alive and able to participate. But the wizard would be different. While co-op could work in Frostgrave, it's not a natural part of the game even though there are mechanics to control random creatures that pop up. But, you can certainly create scenarios to make it work too, since there is a creature AI, though not to the degree or sophistication as in TWD. And even in TWD, I have been creating my scenarios, as that is what a lot of people do.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by TREX

@japes , it can fit. You just have to make the enemies/monsters have a target. They move, try to attack the target. If they cant, attack something they can, if they cant, move again towards the target. They already have a solo/coop campaign in the dark alchemy/frostgrave folio book. I'm in the process of putting together a coop campaign for it. I'm also adding two additional wizard classes with spells to the roster. Jedi/Sith. Along with stats for troopers with blasters and such. Much the same as the ranged bow/crossbowman. It will all fit together nicely. I'll post it here when I'm done. I'm already designing a bunch of custom monsters for my campaign. Many will use heroscape models.

Yes its certainly doable for Frostgrave, just requiring a bit more to it to get it where you have objectives and you figure out the enemy hurdles you'll face. The ones in Folio have some pre-determined main monster and then can throw in some giant rats upon a certain trigger for the first one. Then there are skeletons for the second one that are secondary creature types I believe.

Getting the Frostgrave rulebook and the Frostgrave Folio supplement wouldn't be too expensive to try it out, as long as a person already has minis to use and terrain to play on. That's the nice thing about Frostgrave, is that you can use minis you already have.

[TREX]

I was on miniature market browsing more stuff I shouldn't buy......and seen that there is a zombie in riot gear that will have a new reference card. @Hahma , do you know anything about that? Cause it looks as if they are bringing in a harder to kill zombie type. I'm really curious. The safety behind bars expansion would be enough mantic points for me to get abraham and the new walker rules. This is great except that I haven't even got in a play through of it yet and shouldn't buy any more stuff really because I don't get to play often anyways. Here is what I'm doing with my custom frostgrave wizard types.

Jedi/Sith/Force User
Jedi/Sith will use their spells/abilities at +0
Will use the Neutral Force spells/Abilities at +2
Can use each others Force spells/Abilities at +4
can use the other wizard abilities at +6
other wizards can use their force abilities at +6
I've got a list of jedi/sith abilities together and am going to make cards for them. The wizard stat line will go hand in hand with the generic one. Along with their apprentices/padawans.

Their abilities should make them more offensive in hand to hand combat along with things like force pushing, force choking, force lightning, etc. Should be fun. They shouldn't be more powerful than an elementalist.

I'll also put in a little insert for a couple of additional units.
Trooper-Archer
Heavy Trooper-Crossbowman
Scout Trooper-Archer without shoot/fight bonus for less money
Bounty Hunter-something like a treasure hunter
maybe add some treasure in there like a jetpack. not sure on that one yet. Should be fun. Me and one of my brothers plan on making a handful of custom jedi/sith figures with some translucent colored dowel rods as lightsabers I have on hand.

[TREX]

Ive already put in some sources for scenario creation into my thoughts, I'll share with you guys before I finish it up: @japes , @Hahma , here are what I've got so far. Simple enough mechanics.

Objectives Types
-Rescue NPC
-Pickup Treasure
-Reach Area or Place
-Defeat Enemy (Specific)
-Defeat Enemy (amount)
-Destroy Objective
-Protect Objective
-Escort Objective
-Protect NPC or Item
-Pickup or Place item

ENEMY SPAWNS/TYPES
-Start in Location on Board
-Spawn from location
-Random Board Edge Spawn
-Spawn on objective met
-Triggered Spawn

Enemy movements/Reactions

-Guard- Items, attacks enemies that interact or come in radius of item
-Rally-Enemies move to a rally point-location or character.(Highest Level Wizard, or NPC, etc.)
-Random-Regular Frostgrave spawn/movement for random encounter
-Patrol-Enemies following a set route attacking enemies on sight.

I'm super excited about these. Tell me what you guys think. With this simple set of outlines pretty much any scenario is possible to create.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by TREX

I was on miniature market browsing more stuff I shouldn't buy......and seen that there is a zombie in riot gear that will have a new reference card. @Hahma , do you know anything about that? Cause it looks as if they are bringing in a harder to kill zombie type. I'm really curious. The safety behind bars expansion would be enough mantic points for me to get abraham and the new walker rules. This is great except that I haven't even got in a play through of it yet and shouldn't buy any more stuff really because I don't get to play often anyways. Here is what I'm doing with my custom frostgrave wizard types.

Jedi/Sith/Force User
Jedi/Sith will use their spells/abilities at +0
Will use the Neutral Force spells/Abilities at +2
Can use each others Force spells/Abilities at +4
can use the other wizard abilities at +6
other wizards can use their force abilities at +6
I've got a list of jedi/sith abilities together and am going to make cards for them. The wizard stat line will go hand in hand with the generic one. Along with their apprentices/padawans.

Their abilities should make them more offensive in hand to hand combat along with things like force pushing, force choking, force lightning, etc. Should be fun. They shouldn't be more powerful than an elementalist.

I'll also put in a little insert for a couple of additional units.
Trooper-Archer
Heavy Trooper-Crossbowman
Scout Trooper-Archer without shoot/fight bonus for less money
Bounty Hunter-something like a treasure hunter
maybe add some treasure in there like a jetpack. not sure on that one yet. Should be fun. Me and one of my brothers plan on making a handful of custom jedi/sith figures with some translucent colored dowel rods as lightsabers I have on hand.

I googled an image of a riot gear walker card, it must have been from their kS page. Not sure if it's the same now, but seems likely. They still have the 1 red die for attack, but they have 1 blue die for defense instead of 1 red die. That's really good. They never defend in melee as they only attack, but they do roll defense versus ranged attacks, so this version will be harder to shoot. Also, if you knock a walker down in melee combat, and it stays down after the roll to see if they stand back up, you can engage it for melee again in the next round and then they can only defend. All you have to do is roll better and they are killed and don't require a headshot symbol like normal. So that 1 blue die instead of 1 red for defense will make these guys tougher. I'm not sure though if they have different rules as far as how many you place based on points. Regular walkers are 1 per 15 points of survivors. The image says 10 points, but that doesn't make sense unless it's got something to do with scenario specific rules from that expansion, as these guys are certainly tougher.

Seems like your Frostgrave will have all kinds of stuff going on. Now you just need to play it more with all those brothers you have laying around

Originally Posted by TREX

Ive already put in some sources for scenario creation into my thoughts, I'll share with you guys before I finish it up: @japes , @Hahma , here are what I've got so far. Simple enough mechanics.

Objectives Types
-Rescue NPC
-Pickup Treasure
-Reach Area or Place
-Defeat Enemy (Specific)
-Defeat Enemy (amount)
-Destroy Objective
-Protect Objective
-Escort Objective
-Protect NPC or Item
-Pickup or Place item

ENEMY SPAWNS/TYPES
-Start in Location on Board
-Spawn from location
-Random Board Edge Spawn
-Spawn on objective met
-Triggered Spawn

Enemy movements/Reactions

-Guard- Items, attacks enemies that interact or come in radius of item
-Rally-Enemies move to a rlly point-location or character.(Highest Level Wizard, or NPC, etc.)
-Random-Regular Frostgrave spawn/movement for random encounter
-Patrol-Enemies following a set route attacking enemies on sight.

I'm super excited about these. Tell me what you guys think. With this simple set of outlines pretty much any scenario is possible to create.

Those seem neat. It's just a matter of playing it to nail down the details and seeing how challenging they are.

[TREX]

Should be pretty fun. Me and at least 1 of my brothers plan on starting new warbands and starting a coop campaign. The first scenario will be called Dungeon Defender:The Eternia Crystals. This will be loosely based off the game Dungeon Defenders that we had loved to play on the PS3.
The Crystals seem to have magical properties and the wizards would benefit greatly from studying them. But someone else has the same idea in the matter, another evil wizard has sent his minions to harvest the crystals for his own research.
Dungeon Defenders: The Eternia Crystals
Setup -will have a Cluster of crystals in the center of the map on a 3x3 playing surface. There will be 4 treasures placed between the center of the map and the corners of the map. There will be 4 enemy spawn points, one in the center of each board edge. The rest of the board will be set up as a normal game of frostgrave would be. 12 skeletons/armoured skeletons, or my custom skeleton archers will start on the board. 3 next to each monster spawn point. Players warbands will start on a random corner. More than one warband may start on the same corner if it comes up that way. Warbands are considered allied for this scenario.

Special Rules
Monsters move towards the crystal and must try to attack the crystal if possible. Monsters move towards the crystal, If ranged and can attack it they must, if not they must attack the nearest enemy. If they cannot attack anything they move towards the crystal for their second action. After the Crystal is destroyed monsters move to attack the closest enemy figure. If there is no enemy in line of sight they move towards the closest enemy model. The game ends when the crystals are destroyed, and no player characters are on the board. If there is treasure on the board when all player characters are off the board then the treasure is lost.
At the end of each round spawn a monster off the random monster sheet once at each monster spawn point per player. Example: 1 player equals 1 monster roll per spawn point. 2 players= 2 monster rolls per spawn. Etc.

Treasure and XP
50xp for every treasure carried off the board.
1 Treasure table roll for each treasure.
10gc for each monster killed by a wizard or his warband.
25xp for a wizard studying the Eternia Crystals in base contact with a crystal at the end of each round.
One Grimoire roll awarded to each wizard able to study the crystals for at least 5 rounds.
Wizards reduced to 0 health during this scenario recieve no XP.

What do you think.

[Hahma]

Sounds fun.

[Hahma]

Oh yeah, I just remembered. In the Days Gone By expansion, they introduce rules for walkers that are on fire. They get an extra red die in melee combat. During the end phase, after rolling to see if any prone walkers get back up, you roll to see what happens to any walkers on fire. Roll the 50/50 die and see if they stay on fire, or if they go prone and the fire marker is removed.

They introduce new rules in expansions based on the narrative scenarios and setting. In Days Gone By, it takes place when the survivors just getting together and one of the scenarios takes place when they are camping in the wooded area and are overrun by walkers. There is a campfire cardboard piece that walkers might walk through to catch on fire, as well as there are a couple burning brands (kind of like torches or pieces of wood lit on fire by the campfire) that survivors can use against a walker. Additionally, there is a molotov cocktail piece of equipment that a survivor can through as a area of effect weapon and can set walkers on fire that way.

Why set them on fire if they can do more melee damage? Because there is a 50/50 chance they will end the round prone and you can avoid them for the entire next round (though they will have a chance to stand back up at the end of the round), or you can engage them in melee, where it's a lot easier to kill them for good when prone.

[TREX]

Very cool. So technically there are 3 types of walkers so far. I have all those expansions except the new one in the prison. I was wanting to put together a game day today but it didnt happen.

[TREX]

Spell cards for the other fg books will be the next suppliment I post. After that will be the tables that spawn monsters and treasure and such.