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  #16045  
Old April 27th, 2015, 10:33 AM
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Re: Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
Shipping Container, Dumpster, Telephone Box
Could be good minis for C3G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
Here's some quick numbers for Quentin.

Code:
Figures 	Odds of No Takeover	Avg. Figures
1		45.00%			0.55
2		25.00%			1
3		16.64%			1.35
4		12.96%			1.6
5		11.60%			1.75
6		11.76%			1.8
7		13.35%			1.75
8		16.78%			1.6
9		23.16%			1.35
10		34.87%			1
These numbers do not seem super bad until you remember that Puppet Master arguably the best take control character C3G has released has a range of 8 and a 56.25% chance that he doesn't take control of a figure and an average of 0.5 figures controlled per turn. So...yeah this is kind of super powerful.

~Dysole, mathematically
It appears that the opposite reaction is happening to what was intended...instead of a decrease with more targets it is actually easier to take control of someone the more targets you have.

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #16046  
Old April 27th, 2015, 10:44 AM
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Control to Major Tom

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
Shipping Container, Dumpster, Telephone Box
Could be good minis for C3G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
Here's some quick numbers for Quentin.

Code:
Figures 	Odds of No Takeover	Avg. Figures
1		45.00%			0.55
2		25.00%			1
3		16.64%			1.35
4		12.96%			1.6
5		11.60%			1.75
6		11.76%			1.8
7		13.35%			1.75
8		16.78%			1.6
9		23.16%			1.35
10		34.87%			1
These numbers do not seem super bad until you remember that Puppet Master arguably the best take control character C3G has released has a range of 8 and a 56.25% chance that he doesn't take control of a figure and an average of 0.5 figures controlled per turn. So...yeah this is kind of super powerful.

~Dysole, mathematically
It appears that the opposite reaction is happening to what was intended...instead of a decrease with more targets it is actually easier to take control of someone the more targets you have.
Kind of.

At 6 people you reach your maximum point of returns. For each additional or fewer person you attempt to control you increase your odds of failure and reduce your total average players controlled. That said, given that the power affects 330 spaces choose the 6 most powerful/most devastating figures in this ginormous range (I feel quite confident from the middle of several maps you can reach the entire board) and go to town. You'll average just under 2 figures controlled per turn. You have decent odds of taking many more turns than that.

~Dysole, finding this power insanely broken
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  #16047  
Old April 27th, 2015, 11:02 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

How's this?

Quote:
PSYCHIC PERSUASION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with this figure, if Kid Omega is not engaged, instead of attacking, you may choose any number of Unique Heroes within 5 spaces of Kid Omega for Psychic Persuasion. Roll the 20-sided die, subtracting one from the roll for each figure you chose for Psychic Persuasion. After the 20-sided die is rolled for all chosen figures, for each figure that you rolled 13 or higher for, you may take temporary control of that figure and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of each turn, control of the chosen figure returns to the player who controlled the figure before the Psychic Persuasion. Figures that have the Mental Shield special power are not affected by Psychic Persuasion.

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  #16048  
Old April 27th, 2015, 11:10 AM
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Redecoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
How's this?

Quote:
PSYCHIC PERSUASION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and instead of taking a turn with this figure, if Kid Omega is not engaged, instead of attacking, you may choose any number of Unique Heroes within 5 spaces of Kid Omega for Psychic Persuasion. Roll the 20-sided die, subtracting one from the roll for each figure you chose for Psychic Persuasion. After the 20-sided die is rolled for all chosen figures, for each figure that you rolled 13 or higher for, you may take temporary control of that figure and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of each turn, control of the chosen figure returns to the player who controlled the figure before the Psychic Persuasion. Figures that have the Mental Shield special power are not affected by Psychic Persuasion.
Last line isn't needed as you can't ever take permanent or temporary control of a Mental Shield person (unless that line is needed to allow you to control your own dudes but not your own Magneto).

It's better but 5 spaces but 90 spaces of threat range is still pretty solid. I don't know about theme but this guy would need to be very highly costed for sheer potential.

~Dysole, unsure how to properly price it because unlike other Mind Controllers Quire is not fragile
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  #16049  
Old April 27th, 2015, 11:14 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

What about the problem of getting better the more figures you choose? @Dysole

Edit: Also I wouldn't mind bringing down his defense, or getting rid of Psychokinetic Defense.

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  #16050  
Old April 27th, 2015, 11:32 AM
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Mathhead

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
What about the problem of getting better the more figures you choose? @Dysole

Edit: Also I wouldn't mind bringing down his defense, or getting rid of Psychokinetic Defense.
Well it's not that it "gets better" the more figures you choose it's that it has an optimal point at which trying to get more figures is essentially hurting your averages (although I didn't figure out the standard deviations. Basically once you go beyond the optimal point you're hurting your averages but increasing your chances to do something really big{variance}). Assuming my math is right it's a bit more in line with Puppet Master where 4 is about the optimal number of figures but it's still pretty powerful and he'd need to be a whole heck of a lot of points. I don't really know how good he's supposed to be but all I'm saying is any power in this vein is going to need to be costed pretty steeply.

~Dysole, control freak
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  #16051  
Old April 27th, 2015, 11:36 AM
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Re: Math

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
Here's some quick numbers for Quentin.

Code:
Figures 	Odds of No Takeover	Avg. Figures
1		45.00%			0.55
2		25.00%			1
3		16.64%			1.35
4		12.96%			1.6
5		11.60%			1.75
6		11.76%			1.8
7		13.35%			1.75
8		16.78%			1.6
9		23.16%			1.35
10		34.87%			1
These numbers do not seem super bad until you remember that Puppet Master arguably the best take control character C3G has released has a range of 8 and a 56.25% chance that he doesn't take control of a figure and an average of 0.5 figures controlled per turn. So...yeah this is kind of super powerful.

~Dysole, mathematically


Maybe +2 or +3 per chosen figure, and/or start his roll a little higher, we do not want another puppet master.
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  #16052  
Old April 27th, 2015, 11:39 AM
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Re: Public Design Post

All I can say is that he's one of the most powerful telepaths in the world (If not the most powerful) . Also, which would make him more fragile, lowering his defense, or getting rid of the auto shield ability.

-laughing matter wondering if a character who can fight side by side with wolverine should be made more fragile.

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  #16053  
Old April 27th, 2015, 12:07 PM
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Telecommunications

I don't know how good he's supposed to be. I'm just telling you from a competitive standpoint that where he stands he's fantastically amazing and a league or so ahead of every other mind control person in the game right now.

~Dysole, noting that as a mutant he gets Sage's bonus so...yeah.
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  #16054  
Old April 27th, 2015, 12:10 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by betawolf36 View Post
Shipping Container, Dumpster, Telephone Box
Could be good minis for C3G.
They look great but expensive so for now I think I'll keep the custom ones I built from A3n's and Cav's paper templates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #16055  
Old April 27th, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
All I can say is that he's one of the most powerful telepaths in the world (If not the most powerful) . Also, which would make him more fragile, lowering his defense, or getting rid of the auto shield ability.

-laughing matter wondering if a character who can fight side by side with wolverine should be made more fragile.
I've thought about Quentin before, and my thoughts were pretty much: Rebel Mutant Sidekick (Mutant version of Jason Todd's sidekick power), Mental Shield (or a slightly souped-up version thereof), and a special attack (either borrowing from Xavier or doing something with Quentin's psychic shotgun). Probably some decent physical stats to show off his constructs and telekinetic abilities. I think that's all you really need to show off the character.

I get that he's really powerful, but you have to think about what's going to play well. Also keep in mind when shooting for theme that C3G is for the big fights. Quentin might dispatch a random group of thugs with mass mind control, but I don't think he'll ever beat the Avengers that way.

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  #16056  
Old April 27th, 2015, 06:58 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
All I can say is that he's one of the most powerful telepaths in the world (If not the most powerful) .
That's... really not true. He has the potential to be one of the most powerful telepaths in the Marvel universe, but he's not there yet. He's nowhere near Jean at her strongest or Xavier in his prime. Right now, he's outclassed by Rachel Grey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
-laughing matter wondering if a character who can fight side by side with wolverine should be made more fragile.
Jubilee fought by Wolverine's side and she has 4 Life/3 Defense. Wolverine has fought with a lot of Mutants, and they don't all have ridiculously high survivability.

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