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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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  #1  
Old March 7th, 2008, 12:55 AM
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For or against changing unit point values and why

This whole subject on changing how much units should cost is a good topic for debate. I was thinking this would be the spot to argue and debate till dusk or dawn since we're not supposed to in the other thread. As long as no one is blatantly rude I think we should be able to carry on a debate here like adults.

I for one am pro-keep them the same. They are the official prices of units that have been thoroughly playtested for months prior to release. There's a good reason units cost what they cost and if you don't believe so, you're probably missing something about the unit that the designers had in mind. I believe that every unit can shine according to how and when you use them, yada yada. If we start proposing changes, a company like wotc, that has no problems busting out some errata, might go ape crap on this game and destroy the very fabric it was woven from. They also might take several more months to playtest units based on "making darn sure it's costed correctly because every one on that website is so godly awesome at knowing exactly what a units price should be and we don't want to disappoint them."
In all reality, we've seen it before, units that are lacking get accompanying new units to fill in the void of use. It's a great system they have of creating units. A bit slow, but great nontheless. Any unit that is overpriced will 'probably', eventually get new units to help, while underpriced units will get newer units that counter them. Everything works out in the end.
Besides, it's their game. I believe they would know best. I refuse to ever house rule a units cost up or down. It just doesn't sit right in my digestive tract. A unit like taelord, oh my god, he should be like 120. Him, 2 squads of minions, and one omnicron squad can tear you up on a small map.

Anyhoo, what does everyone else think?
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  #2  
Old March 7th, 2008, 01:01 AM
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Well, as I stated previously in the other thread, I agree with you absolutely. It has long been my opinion that the thing that needs to be changed is not the design of the units that we use, but the way that we use them. Rather than restate my opinion thoroughly, however, I will just wait until there are more responses to this before being more specific (until there is a debate going on).

And I too would appreciate it if comments could remain civil, rather than turning venomous. We should discuss ideas, not people.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 01:15 AM
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I figured we're not allowed to speak of such evils in the other thread. How terrible and forbidden it would be to NOT change the entire structure of the game. Cause when you change one figure, just one, inevitably they're all gonna be changin. It's gonna be all out heroscape anarchy, "game over man!"
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Old March 7th, 2008, 03:49 AM
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Yeah, I don't think it'd be a good idea to change any point values. If you're playing among a group of friends in your house, I see no problem with house ruling different values if you want to see more Dunds get picked, but I don't think there should be anything official. I say leave the figures as is
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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:40 AM
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I don't want the point values changed. I think the overall health of the game requires certain powers to be overpriced. You've mentioned Dund and Taelord. If they were great figures, Heroscape would suck! Imagine if the best "strategy" were to just pick the guy who gives everyone more attack! It's good for the game that you have to work harder than that. Dund is the same way. He can clear the order markers off any card. There's no real way to counter-draft him. If he were good, he would ruin a lot of the rock-paper-scissors effects. Sometimes, an individual card needs to get watered down to avoid over-simplifying army building.

Different units have different purposes, and being competitive isn't the only one. Just because a unit sucks doesn't mean it fails at its own particular purpose.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 08:34 AM
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I am willing to allow anyone who has play-tested a figure for 1,000 hours to propose a different point value for it. But, until you have spent that much time play-testing, I'd stick with the point values established by the professionals. In other words, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." HeroScape "ain't broke."
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Old March 7th, 2008, 01:32 PM
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Yea errata and new cards for figures are a huge annoyance to get a hold of and enforce. I think everything's balanced pretty well. It's a really good sign of a game that can create so many figures and still have the game balanced and not let the power creep come in and ruin old figures. i hope they can keep it up.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamjuven
It's a really good sign of a game that can create so many figures and still have the game balanced and not let the power creep come in and ruin old figures. i hope they can keep it up.
I hope they can, too; and think they can, in part because of a community that will demand no power creep. (That's us, by the way.)
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Old March 7th, 2008, 09:57 PM
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I wholeheartedly agree with all of you, but I was in another thread that said heroscape is unbalanced and needs to be fixed. Shockingly, there are tons of people who feel that way. No one is really promoting the want to change the values on this thread, so the debate hasn't really started. I just want to get to the bottom of this and support what particular units are "broken" or sucky with some master debating.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchop
I figured we're not allowed to speak of such evils in the other thread. How terrible and forbidden it would be to NOT change the entire structure of the game. Cause when you change one figure, just one, inevitably they're all gonna be changin. It's gonna be all out heroscape anarchy, "game over man!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchop
I wholeheartedly agree with all of you, but I was in another thread that said heroscape is unbalanced and needs to be fixed.
I really hope you're not referring to this thread, as you've entirely misinterpreted it, if you are.

I'll wait for your confirmation before I go on a lengthy tirade about what the point of the thread was, which you may have clearly missed.

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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revdyer
I am willing to allow anyone who has play-tested a figure for 1,000 hours to propose a different point value for it. But, until you have spent that much time play-testing, I'd stick with the point values established by the professionals. In other words, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." HeroScape "ain't broke."
Agreed.

But I'm just glad that they haven't (as far as I've seen) done what they did with SWmininatures. Increasing the Figs abilities and making them totally own the first few sets released, yet way (and I do mean WAY) underpricing the later figs in comparison to the first figs.

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  #12  
Old March 7th, 2008, 11:04 PM
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Tirade away man. I dont think i missed the point, maybe i did, i just think that if everyone is houseruling all these units to different point values wotc is gonna check that thread and start pondering if they should "fix" this game. Considering, they say they lurk this site a bunch. No offense, wotc, but "fixing" is pretty common in your ranks.
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