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  #3829  
Old October 21st, 2019, 12:07 AM
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kolakoski kolakoski is offline
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Well met!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Rania
I can't say that I'm very excited to see even more bonding options for the Romans. They really don't need help. They already have plenty of options.
The Armocs, though...

@kolakoski , you keep making a bunch of changes each time someone says anything about your design. I think you're bending a little too quickly to each person before there's any further feedback about it, and it makes giving feedback on your designs hard since they change so quickly.

I do like the 5/3 change to Demetria. I thought Rania was in a great place. That's all I'll say for now, I think you should be more loyal to the vision you have for your designs than to the feedback who don't have the inside vision you have (including myself).

Thanks, Bigga! I hear you. I felt compelled to limit Battle Cry and Leaf's post implied Warlord might be a deal breaker. Divine Mission isa great re-use of that power, in this thematic context. I loved the synergy between Warlord and Ullar Battle Cry.




RANIA REYJYRE

General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Warlord
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4

Points 130

ULLAR BATTLE CRY
After Rania destroys an opponent's figure with a normal attack, you may move 3 squad figures you control who follow Ullar up to 3 spaces each.

DIVINE MISSION
When revealing an order marker on Rania's card, after taking Rania's turn, you may reveal the "X" order marker that is on Rania's card and take another turn with Rania. During this additional turn, Rania adds 2 to her normal attack against Undead figures.




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  #3830  
Old October 21st, 2019, 12:17 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!

Agreed. This may be a Workshop Thread..but typically it’s appreciated by those who participate in giving feedback that the unit has a clear vision and some playtesting already done. I view this thread as a place to go for fine tuning rather than a full rework and the reworks here are changing so much this is something that needs to happen in your own customs thread.

My suggestion on an SoV submission process:
1) design the unit how YOU want it in your customs thread
2) look for feedback and workshopping in YOUR customs thread
3) playtest your Version of the unit 2-3 times
4) make adjustments as needed and ask for feedback in YOUR thread until you come to a point where you like it
5) playtest it another 2-3 more times
6) repeat #4 and #5 as much as you feel it’s needed
7) THEN come to the Pre-SoV workshop with a clear vision and some testing to back up the design. Doing this will make it a lot easier for people to give good honest feedback and help you refine a design.
repeat #4&5 as needed until the design is at a point where you as the designer can say it’s ready to Submit. ~ Sir Heroscape

I hear you. Moving this conversation to where it belongs . . .






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  #3831  
Old October 21st, 2019, 12:56 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I mean, having her as a warlord doesn't mean people pick her with the Romans, especially if her abilities are limited to Ullar - there's much better options. Hell, there's better options in Ullar.
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  #3832  
Old October 21st, 2019, 01:06 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I mean, having her as a warlord doesn't mean people pick her with the Romans, especially if her abilities are limited to Ullar - there's much better options. Hell, there's better options in Ullar.
Good point. I was thinking about the design before the restrictions to Ullar, and was planning to say something about it. I should have given it more thought before posting.
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  #3833  
Old October 21st, 2019, 01:41 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
I have been contemplating Olog over the last few weeks and I have made changes to him. The powers are similar to the origional but I personaly prefer these new ones. I still need to test him with the new powers, but just wanted to see what people thought.


My initial impression is that the 20-30 point range is more interesting, but if he's been testing too powerfully at that bracket then don't try to force him into it.

I like the change to First Assault. It still conveys the same playstyle and has the familiarity of a pre-existing power.

I'm less enthused by dropping the Orc Battle Rush. I thought it was a neat reuse tying him to the Death Chasers of Thesk, and the power itself is very distinct but hasn't been explored outside of that squad yet. Changing it to less movement but at the start of every round loses a bit of what made it feel distinct to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'm hesitant to bump the points further. I like the weird point value at 25--it slots in nicely with the TSA's 65 points, and it stacks to 50 or 75 to give Samurai builds more options for filler. At 30, 2x of them competes directly with the Izumi Samurai and 4x conflicts with the Tagawa Samurai, so they'd find less use in non-archer builds. Once you can start affording the other squads, they've often proven to be the better choice.

Also, the Wave of Fear is actually a lot more difficult to set up than anticipated. Moving and attacking with 5 of them is definitely scary, but that costs 125 points + the dead Samurai, which at best is about an additional 100 points of killed figures. Many games that I've played with them, I realize that I could've gotten away with fewer Seishin than I expected, since the opponent is often pretty smart about not letting them build up forever. So far I've found the sweetspot to be 2-3 for TSA builds and 1-2 for Unique ones, because they do experience some diminishing returns.

That said, I definitely could stand to test more with 5+ of them in the army. I'll need to see them at those higher totals in action more before feeling justified in a price bump.
You have a point with them needing to replace a figure, rather than starting on the board. In some ways starting on the board is a downside to the Ebon Armor though, because you need them to die for them to serve their purpose. I'd have to play with these guys to get a feel for how different this can make things play out. I'm pretty excited for this design though. I hope you see it to submission. (also really hoping a certain soulborg makes a return someday...)
That's true with the Ebon Armor needing to get into battle in the first place. The Seishin only have 4 move, but if played well then that's all that they'll need. I haven't seen anyone successfully pull off a huge Seishin attack yet (the most that I've seen on the board at once is three, even in TSA armies), so I'll engineer some scenarios to see how problematic it'll be in action.

(As for a certain SoulBorg, he'll be back once I don't have Samurai sculpts dwindling in supply.)
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  #3834  
Old October 21st, 2019, 12:58 PM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Seishin Samuari
I love where this design has ended up. Don't let people dissuade you about the potential power of Wave of Fear; the fact that it has high potential is a selling point, imo. Anyone who does manage to do a big turn with them not only deserves kudos, but their opponent deserves what they get for letting them build up like that. My only concern is the free movement after spawning. It seems to me a valid strategy would be to run away with them after spawning in an attempt to protect them and build up a horde. I doubt it would be an effective strategy, but something to test for.

Olog
Like Astro I feel a bit saddened at the loss of Orc Battle Rush. It was a nice tieback to the Death Chasers. But Savage Rush does work better for a variety of maps and game types, so it's probably better for him. The change to First Assault is a good one in that it keeps to the theme you want while tapping into familiarity. 50pts does feel a bit high for what you get, but that's up to playtesting. If that is right, looking at the figure you could viably drop the Defense to 1 and drop the cost, but I like him pretty well as he is, stats-wise.
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  #3835  
Old October 21st, 2019, 04:15 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I feel like (without testing) the current stats of Olog feel more in the 35 - 40 point range, than 50.
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  #3836  
Old October 22nd, 2019, 11:37 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

After some more testing 35 points feels right. I feel 1 defense keeps his 5 attack potential in check, but having the 3 lives mean he can survive for a short time. The Savage Rush instead of orc battle rush means he can fit into non bonding armies better because in the ravagers build you don't need to put order markers on him, but Savage Rush means he is still usefull in non bonding armies
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  #3837  
Old October 22nd, 2019, 02:19 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Seishin Samuari
I love where this design has ended up. Don't let people dissuade you about the potential power of Wave of Fear; the fact that it has high potential is a selling point, imo. Anyone who does manage to do a big turn with them not only deserves kudos, but their opponent deserves what they get for letting them build up like that. My only concern is the free movement after spawning. It seems to me a valid strategy would be to run away with them after spawning in an attempt to protect them and build up a horde. I doubt it would be an effective strategy, but something to test for.
From my games with them, it's definitely a lot harder to set up a huge Wave of Fear than it looks. I do want to test out larger amounts of Seishin before submission, though, just to cover all bases.

As for the free movement after spawning, that is actually probably one of the best changes in terms of making them more fun to play. It's possible to run them away instead of engaging the enemy, but typically that gives up your positioning and the 4 move hits harder when you do want to activate them. Engaging enemies, on the other hand, protects your other Samurai and provides immediate value.

That said, I could see someone trying to build up an armada of Seishin Samurai as a back-up force if they have enough points to spare. I'll look into it--if it proves to be the best way to play them, then I'll probably drop the defense to 3 to encourage using them more aggressively instead of trying to save all of them as a second army.
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  #3838  
Old October 22nd, 2019, 03:12 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Olog is looking pretty darn good. My concern that you're just creating an extra target for the opponent to ping with free shots is still valid, but the 3 Life makes him less attractive to route attacks at. The combination of powers definitely does make him a hungry ambusher, even if you have to spend order markers on him. So yeah, I'm pretty happy with this design.
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  #3839  
Old November 4th, 2019, 07:56 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I've been working on a new addition to my favorite VC set, the Varkaanan clan, and found a pre-painted Wolfen Confrontation set call Great Fangs that I fell in love with. I absolutely love these guys and their imposing presence on the battlefield! I've named them the Varkaanan Deathfangs since their powerbase is based off the Swiftfangs.



I haven't had a chance to photograph them properly yet due to gloomy weather but I will make a card for them soon once weather conditions improve. My goal for this unique squad is to have them be slow moving terrors that stalk their pray. Whereas the Swiftfangs are meant to move out first, the Deathfangs are meant to move out last. Here is what I have so far.

*****

Varkaanan Deathfangs
Unique Squad


Move 4
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 3
Points 120


Finish the Hunt
When Order Marker 3 is revealed on the Varkaanan Deathfangs, add 2 their Move number and 1 extra attack die for that turn.

Execute the Defeated
After revealing an order marker on this card, If a Varkaanan Deathfang destroys a figure during his attack, he may move and attack 1 more time. Each Varkaanan Deathfang may only use this power once per turn.

Unrelenting Stalk
When a Varkaanan Deathfang rolls defense dice against an attacking figure who is not adjacent, add 2 automatic shields to whatever is rolled.

*****

Design notes:

1. With a move of 4, the Desthfangs are the slowest wolves of the pack. And since they will only shine during turn 3 and cannot use their execute power unless an order marker is revealed on their card, the player will have to use the Wolf Pack power with other wolves to slowly get them into position so they can land that killing blow on turn 3.

2. Thematically, Wolf pack was purposely left off this card as these wolves are called to end the hunt once their brothers have already gone forward. From a balance perspective, they are too strong if you can bond with other wolves when they reveal an order marker 3 and use their execute power.

3. When I created Execute the Defeated, I imagined them slowly walking the battlefield looking for survivors and executing them. I loved the idea of these terrifying, hulking wolves scouring the remains of the battlefield looking for a kill while collecting skulls and loot. This also matches the figures themselves since one of them is holding a jar, one has a skull on his head, and one looks like an actually executioner.

4. The Unrelenting Stalk power provides a great visual of a slow, lumbering beast stalking you from afar while impervious to anything that you throw its way to stop him. From a gamplay perspective, with their average defense and move of 4 and because they are most likely not going to be activated till the end of a round, they needing something to help them survive against range attacks as they slowly work their way up the battlefield. They can still be defeated easily if their opponent gets the jump on them and meets them in hand to hand combat. I've gone back and forth on 1 auto defense vs 2 and landed with 2 since they were a little fragile against multiple range squads.

I'll make an attractive card later. Looking forward to your thoughts!
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  #3840  
Old November 4th, 2019, 08:18 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

The biggest problem with Vaarks lately has been availability. Are these minis widely available?
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