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  #13  
Old November 17th, 2018, 08:15 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™ by NecroBlade: Doctor Doom, Iron Man 11/

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I like that you made his double attack a special attack. I think it is good practice to make most multi-attacks, special.
I think normal multi-attacks can work; we have our fair share of Double Attack, Whirlwind Assault, etc. But I do agree that making multi-attacks special will save a lot of headaches in a lot of cases (especially the more complex ones).

===============



Both his normal and Cosmic Force Blast special attack gain an attack die. Since he can only use one at a time, that's not quite as strong as it could be, but still strong. I'm not a huge fan of Stealth Flying being its own power separate from the Flying symbol, but I do prefer that to another symbol for Stealth Flying. The bigger change, probably, is he's now a double-spaced figure, Large 6. There are simply way too many medium superheroes, so this adds a bit of variety (he also looks awesome with his board on a double). Being large arguably makes him stronger by being immune to some powers (though most of my SuperHeroScape powers, I think, work against almost anything). The double base does negatively impact his mobility, though, which is extremely important to his hit-and-run tactics.




The only changes to Thanos are +1 Attack and +1 Life. That costs him 30 points. The extra Life weirdly makes RBD matter both more and less: the less often he dies, the less he uses RBD, but coming back is 1 Life more impactful each time. The difference between 6 and 7 attack can also matter very little against some figures (like squads), though there's no denying it's a buff. At the end of the day, he still only has a single attack.

===============

That leaves just two cards for the reworked Master Set, one of which is probably my favorite. Of the pairs, they also saw the highest point increase (probably controversial), in fact more than the combined increase of the rest (counting Red Skull and Abomination's decreases)!

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  #14  
Old November 17th, 2018, 08:21 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™ by NecroBlade: Doctor Doom, Iron Man 11/

Oh I like SS as Large. Cool.

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Old November 18th, 2018, 11:10 AM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™ by NecroBlade: Doctor Doom, Iron Man 11/

Captain America
I've never really been a big fan of Cap as a tank. He's always felt like a more nimble, acrobatic fighter to me, and making him a big beatstick doesn't capture the right vibe to me. That said, every Cap design I've ever seen by someone other than me is a beatstick, so maybe I'm the crazy one.

Anyhow, I dig this spin on the SA, and the more active leadership is a big improvement over the Hasbro version for sure. I do worry that he's a little too tough. I often struggle to take down the C3G version, who has similar durability (but with 1 less Defense).

Don't think he's quite SS-worthy, either.

Red Skull
I'm not super hot on Master Manipulator, but I suppose I can't blame you for skewing close to the original. It just feels like such a generic leadership power to me, on one of the nastiest schemers in the Marvel U. I don't think the mechanics ever lived up to the power name.

Cool take on the Cube, though. Might be a little low-rent in terms of what the Cosmic Cube is supposed to be, but it serves the purpose of the card nicely. I'd have been tempted to mess around with the timing of the power so it could trigger when he farms out a Master Manipulator turn, but that's probably not necessary.

Doctor Doom
The trap power adds that 'mastermind' feeling that the Hasbro Doctor Doom was missing. Just what the Doctor ordered! There are a million things you could do with Doom, but this is a pretty solid spin on the Hasbro version.

Iron Man
Another really solid spin on the Hasbro original. In a vacuum, I like the multi-attack being a special, but taking away the synergy with Cap feels like kind of a bummer.

Silver Surfer
The shift to large is clever - not something I would have thought of, and the size diversity is welcome.

Thanos
Not too much to say on this one - Thanos is really more of a schemer and less of a tank in the comics, but I suppose the tankiness makes sense in the context of fighting Earth's heroes instead of crazy powerful cosmic entities that he's usually going up against. I think, like Doom, the Hasbro version could really use one power to flesh out that side of the character, but I can't fault you for restraint.

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  #16  
Old November 18th, 2018, 01:05 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™ by NecroBlade: Doctor Doom, Iron Man 11/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Oh I like SS as Large. Cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Captain America
I've never really been a big fan of Cap as a tank. He's always felt like a more nimble, acrobatic fighter to me, and making him a big beatstick doesn't capture the right vibe to me. That said, every Cap design I've ever seen by someone other than me is a beatstick, so maybe I'm the crazy one.

Anyhow, I dig this spin on the SA, and the more active leadership is a big improvement over the Hasbro version for sure. I do worry that he's a little too tough. I often struggle to take down the C3G version, who has similar durability (but with 1 less Defense).

Don't think he's quite SS-worthy, either.

Red Skull
I'm not super hot on Master Manipulator, but I suppose I can't blame you for skewing close to the original. It just feels like such a generic leadership power to me, on one of the nastiest schemers in the Marvel U. I don't think the mechanics ever lived up to the power name.

Cool take on the Cube, though. Might be a little low-rent in terms of what the Cosmic Cube is supposed to be, but it serves the purpose of the card nicely. I'd have been tempted to mess around with the timing of the power so it could trigger when he farms out a Master Manipulator turn, but that's probably not necessary.

Doctor Doom
The trap power adds that 'mastermind' feeling that the Hasbro Doctor Doom was missing. Just what the Doctor ordered! There are a million things you could do with Doom, but this is a pretty solid spin on the Hasbro version.

Iron Man
Another really solid spin on the Hasbro original. In a vacuum, I like the multi-attack being a special, but taking away the synergy with Cap feels like kind of a bummer.

Silver Surfer
The shift to large is clever - not something I would have thought of, and the size diversity is welcome.

Thanos
Not too much to say on this one - Thanos is really more of a schemer and less of a tank in the comics, but I suppose the tankiness makes sense in the context of fighting Earth's heroes instead of crazy powerful cosmic entities that he's usually going up against. I think, like Doom, the Hasbro version could really use one power to flesh out that side of the character, but I can't fault you for restraint.
Thanks for the feedback!

Cap: SS is actually a mistake. This is what happens when you don't turn off a layer in Photoshop. (Edit: Fixed.) If it helps, I guess you could say his "nimble fighter"-ness is represented by 6 Defense and the shield is just the shield. Though in the end he plays like a "tank".

Red Skull: I haven't gotten far enough into testing with Squads, but maybe when I do I'll add them to MM, possibly without changing his points. (On a related note, all bonding squads should be considered to have "After revealing an Order Marker..." because it really opens up design space and you don't have to try to work around activation chains.) And sure CC can do a lot more, but this felt like an appropriate level of stuff for a Master-Set-worthy card.

Doctor Doom: I really think this adds just enough Doom-y-ness without getting too complicated.

Iron Man: Just pretend it's Civil War Steve and Tony. It is somewhat of a bummer, though. But it's consistent with his points ending in 5 in a way, and can incentivize a big Knockback attack.

Silver Surfer: Glad to see positive feedback on the size change. He really looks right at home on a double. I should try to get some pictures up sometime.

Thanos: You're right that there could be more going on here, but this is kind of just "fine, I'll do it myself" Thanos who's here to punch a few Earth heroes. Also, I imagine many powers could get out of hand when he keeps getting RBD, too. (On a related note, I had spitballed some quick ideas for the Infinity Gauntlet/Gems recently...)

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  #17  
Old November 20th, 2018, 09:11 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™ by NecroBlade: Silver Surfer, Thanos 11/



I was never a huge fan of the Web special attack. It didn't seem terribly thematic of anything. With Thwip!*, Spidey can incapacitate enemies just as before (-1 Defense) and also manipulate the smaller, weaker ones (including allies!). Other than that, he just gains a Defense die. The Defense on its own isn't normally worth much, but when combined with Spidey-Sense, a wild guess says it's probably at least as good as 6 Defense and 7 Life, which is almost as tough as Abomination! Despite his single Attack of 4, he lands at +40 points to the official version because he can survive quite a long time, and given that time he can find situations for Thwip! to really shine.




Venom also gets another Defense die, and changed up his special attack. He now has a way to affect multiple figures. Spider-Sense Symbiote Senses is indeed inferior to Spidey-Sense, but I always felt his 50% higher Attack of 6 should make him cost more than Spider-Man anyway. This whopping 70 point increase is probably the biggest controversy, but Venom is in a weird spot. Compared to Sgt. Drake (Sotm), official Venom had 1 less Life, but his special attack and mobility were better, and Sense arguably so compared to Thorian Speed, yet he cost 20 points less! He also had -1 Defense and Life to Tor-Kul-Na, yet gained 2 powers (give or take Super Strength) and cost 70 points less! Now he's just -1 Life, +2 powers compared to TKN, which seems more than fair for the same cost. But next to Drake he's +1 D, -1 L with a roughly equal power set, which would seem to land him around 170. I erred on the high side of those comparisons, while formulaically even 220 was scoring low.


*What are some other superhero sound effects you would make powers out of?

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  #18  
Old November 20th, 2018, 09:31 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™: Spider-Man, Venom (full Master Set) 11/

Really dig the changes to Spidey.

I always liked Hasbro Venom for his bargain basement price, but I can't fault you for changing that.

My one quibble is that Venom is not actually supposed to have a spider-sense - he can kinda fake it with the symbiote's 360-degree perceptions, though.

That's a subtlety of his power set that gets overlooked fairly often, but as a Venom super-fan, I would recommend tweaking the power name from 'spider-sense' to 'symbiotic senses' or something.

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  #19  
Old November 20th, 2018, 10:15 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™: Spider-Man, Venom (full Master Set) 11/

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Really dig the changes to Spidey.

I always liked Hasbro Venom for his bargain basement price, but I can't fault you for changing that.

My one quibble is that Venom is not actually supposed to have a spider-sense - he can kinda fake it with the symbiote's 360-degree perceptions, though.

That's a subtlety of his power set that gets overlooked fairly often, but as a Venom super-fan, I would recommend tweaking the power name from 'spider-sense' to 'symbiotic senses' or something.
Cheaper heroes are definitely cool. There will be plenty of those to come. The Master Set is far more expensive points-wise than any of the four waves.

Good tip about Symbiotic Senses. I like that much better than Spidey-Sense vs Spider-Sense anyway. (Edit: Fixed.)

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  #20  
Old November 21st, 2018, 05:57 AM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™: Spider-Man, Venom (full Master Set) 11/

The web special attack always made me think of stuff Spider Man did in the 90s animated series and the video game of the same time period.

With that said, this version of Spider Man looks pretty sweet.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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Old November 24th, 2018, 09:03 AM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™: Spider-Man, Venom (full Master Set) 11/

I like your use of Wild Swing SA on Venom. It subtly captures his reach with his tendrils without having to give him the Reach power. It also differentiates him from Spider-Man and gives you a reason to draft him instead. I also really like your streamlining of all the official text, use of passing swipe vs LEA, and some other changes with Dr. Doom and Cap's special attack.

I'll be watching your thread to see what else you end up posting. Thanks for sharing!

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Old November 24th, 2018, 08:22 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™: Spider-Man, Venom (full Master Set) 11/

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
The web special attack always made me think of stuff Spider Man did in the 90s animated series and the video game of the same time period.

With that said, this version of Spider Man looks pretty sweet.
Certainly a particular theme lost by not having the small ranged attack. Even just giving him a Range number >1 with his low-ish (for superheroes) Attack of 4 is a fair representation. I felt Thwip! is versatile enough to play the "ranged" part on my version, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Pig View Post
I like your use of Wild Swing SA on Venom. It subtly captures his reach with his tendrils without having to give him the Reach power.

I'll be watching your thread to see what else you end up posting. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks! That's exactly what I was envisioning with Wild Swing.

Slowly but surely I'll get through Wave 4 (all 50 figures). And maybe eventually more beyond. The Master Set underwent the most testing by far, though.

===============

And away we go with Wave 1!



The first of the figures that were officially finished but we're never going to see is Beast. He has the same stats and points as Spider-Man, but a very different power set; the first 4 power set, in fact! So how does he get an extra power for no extra charge? Well, Stealth Leap is inferior to Swing Line (mainly by 1 Move, sometimes by an extra level of castle). Feral Rage can be quite useful (especially in conjunction with his next power), but is a bit situational. Unleashed Fury! (Slightly reworked because +8 Attack would be bonkers here.) Is it finally Khosumet's time to shine? With both UF and FR maxed out, Beast can throw 24 attack dice in one turn with no other help! But this is also where Spider-Man makes up the points, despite Beast's average attack almost matching Venom: not only does Beast not have Spidey-Sense's survivability, he can potentially wound himself as well. Finally, Negotiation gives that nice additional dimension to his character, rather than just a furry blue ball of fury. A previous version was limited to once per round, but didn't allow the X to be removed. The X is a balancing mechanism for always removing your opponent's next turn otherwise (which is a change I've made to all such powers in place of "at random" because I felt that "stun" and similar effects would happen immediately, instead of randomly). Technically this version allows you, in a 1-on-1 endgame, to nuke the entire round for both players when you win initiative, but that accomplishes nothing (unless maybe Beast is standing on Wannok).

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Old November 27th, 2018, 05:42 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™: Wave 1 Begin! Beast 11/24

Very interesting takes on the original cards and Beast. Nice to see some new ideas here and there, like the cosmic cube. Pt levels seem pretty good at 1st glance. Also like the artwork choices. Great idea for knockback and lava rules
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Old November 27th, 2018, 06:17 PM
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Re: SuperHeroScape™: Spider-Man, Venom (full Master Set) 11/

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Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Technically this version allows you, in a 1-on-1 endgame, to nuke the entire round for both players when you win initiative, but that accomplishes nothing (unless maybe Beast is standing on Wannok).
Actually, you can't do that, because the power gives the opponent the chance to burn their X instead of a numbered OM, and (at least as I'm reading it) it requires Beast to take a turn in order to use it - he can't do it more than twice a round.

I think it would play out like this, assuming Beast can always negotiate at the start of his turn (big assumption) and always opts to do it.

Quote:
Beast 1: Beast takes a turn and removes his own X to negotiate the X away from his opponent.
Enemy 1: Enemy gets a turn
Beast 2: Beast takes a turn and removes his own 3 to negotiate the 2 away from his opponent.
Enemy 2: (burned by Negotiate)
Beast 3: (burned by Negotiate)
Enemy 3: Enemy gets a turn
So the worst Beast can do in a 1-on-1 endgame situation is nuke half the turns.

Anyhow, cool take on Beast, though I'm a little surprised to see him as your first with 4 text powers. Should be pretty straightforward in practice, though.

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