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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #13  
Old May 28th, 2022, 03:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

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Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
I lose initiative all the time so the third power does feel a bit stifling for the ungifted rollers among us even Sir Hawthorne in classic is on a 1, right?

Otherwise the theme of popping up next to others, spying on them, getting a cheap shot in... these are all really fun.

A roll of 1 requirement is a great idea. Mina will be boosting Initiative as well.

I'd be wrong for him not to have the betrayal power, since the character is a megalomaniac who is constantly looking out for himself in the novel, movies and in League, and was prevented from leaving the team for dead in Vol. 1, and sold out the human race for the martians in Vol. 2.

I also think Invisible Infiltration would be cooler as an "and" instead of an "or", since I would opt for the second option almost 100% of the time.
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  #14  
Old May 28th, 2022, 04:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

Betrayal powers are definitely tricky to balance with how inherently swingy they are. I like the idea of lowering the roll and including initiative boosters in faction to prevent the betrayal - then when those boosters fall, you risk Invisible Man turning on you.

Cool design overall. I assume Extraordinary will be the synergy hook for the League?
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  #15  
Old May 28th, 2022, 10:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

Yeah, the issue with a betrayal power like that is you'll either never draft him or you'll exclusively draft him with things that allow you to completely mitigate the betrayal (initiative boosters or someone like Doctor Fate in this case). Which, maybe is a feature and not a flaw?

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  #16  
Old May 28th, 2022, 10:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

I still think that’s a flaw and an betrayal power is gonna make the design unplayable for me.
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  #17  
Old May 28th, 2022, 11:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

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Originally Posted by tcglkn View Post
I still think thatís a flaw and an betrayal power is gonna make the design unplayable for me.
If, hypothetically, the treacherous nature of this character is essential to represent on the card, how would you do that without a betrayal power?
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  #18  
Old May 28th, 2022, 11:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

Personality.
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  #19  
Old May 29th, 2022, 03:18 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

I think the action of betraying the team is pretty important to him, I'd like to keep something to portray it if either of these ideas is more agreeable.

With the Hasbro-scape precedent.
Quote:
SELF-SERVING BETRAYAL
Once per game, if you lose initiative with a roll of 1 or lower on any round after the first, remove any Order Markers on this figure's Army Card, choose an opponent to take control of this figure and its card, and place The Invisible Man's figure in that player's Start Zone.
I think with this one, most initiative boosters are either the types who would keep him in line or surveillance types where he wouldn't risk getting caught so it makes sense for him to me.


Or perhaps with something like this, he could be less of a boon to the opponent.
Quote:
SELF-SERVING BETRAYAL
Once per game, if you lose initiative with a roll of 6 or lower on any round after the first, remove any Order Markers on this figure's Army Card, choose an opponent to take control of this figure and its card, and place The Invisible Man's figure in that player's Start Zone. That opponent must then move all numbered Order Markers from cards that they control to this card.
So like he turns traitor, but he's so self obsessed he takes turns away from the enemy, which helps you since he's not really a high impact figure.

I think I lean towards something like the second option where he can turn traitor, but then hogs the enemy's turns. Maybe something more long term even like 2 OMs per round for the rest of the game until he is destroyed.
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  #20  
Old May 29th, 2022, 03:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

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Originally Posted by toyhandle View Post
I also think Invisible Infiltration would be cooler as an "and" instead of an "or", since I would opt for the second option almost 100% of the time.
I'd like to explore this idea, especially if Betrayal is dropped, since I think if the second power is strong he'd operate just fine as a two power figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcglkn View Post
I am also not convinced you need the blanks count as two wounds part of the middle power.
I could see that dropped, either to make it more of a choice or especially if he is able to do the OM snooping and the attack.
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  #21  
Old May 29th, 2022, 03:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

I do worry that with both actions on the second power he could be quite strong with Investigators.
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  #22  
Old May 29th, 2022, 03:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

I'd almost want to make the betrayal roll 4 or lower at the least. Like, having the power makes you generally want to have an initiative booster. 4 or lower means that just bringing along the most passive, cheap initiative booster possible (Oracle, unless I'm forgetting someone), you can still lose him on a 1. Definitely ways to further mitigate, which again I assume the faction will have plenty of, but I wouldn't want it too easy to autopilot out of in generalist builds if we're feeling it is important to include.
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  #23  
Old May 29th, 2022, 03:43 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

I think 4 or even 5 makes sense if his power is hurting the enemy a bit, I think that may be the key, since losing him would normally be a hit and to some not worth drafting. It seems like a better option than just minimizing the risk.
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  #24  
Old May 29th, 2022, 03:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Invisible Man - Design

Quote:
NAME = INVISIBLE MAN
SECRET IDENTITY = HAWLEY GRIFFIN

SPECIES = MUTATE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = PSYCHOPATH
PERSONALITY = EXTRAORDINARY

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3

POINTS = ?


INVISIBILITY
Invisible Man can move through all figures, is never attacked when leaving an engagement, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or special powers that require clear sight.

INVISIBLE INFILTRATION
After the first round, if you win initiative and Invisible Man is unengaged, you may place him adjacent to any figure on the battlefield within 10 spaces of Invisible Man that does not have the Blind Warrior special power and may:
• Look at any unrevealed Order Markers on that figure's card; or
• Roll one unblockable attack die against that figure. A blank rolled counts as 2 skulls.

SELF-SERVING BETRAYAL
Once per game, if you lose initiative with a roll of 5 or lower on any round after the first, remove any Order Markers on this figure's Army Card, choose an opponent to take control of this figure and its card, and place The Invisible Man's figure in that player's Start Zone. For the rest of the game, unless Invisible Man is destroyed, that player must place at least 2 Order Markers on Invisible Man's card at the start of each round.
Summarizing my ideas here, I'd be happy with these changes.
The second power dropping the double wound risk makes it more of a choice and is preferable to letting him do both in an Investigator/OM shenanigans build.
The third power he can betray you, but if he does he will be pursuing his own agenda, usually somewhat hindering the enemy.
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