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  #1  
Old February 13th, 2013, 05:23 PM
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$9 Minimum Wage

I heard that Obama proposed a $9/hour minimum wage in his State of the Union Address.

What do you think? A trigger for further inflation, or a help to families struggling near or below the poverty line?

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Old February 13th, 2013, 05:29 PM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

The problem with raising the minimum wage is that it ends up raising the cost of living which in turn prompts calls for a higher minimum wage. This type of change doesn't happen in a vacuum.
-If you raise the cost of doing business, the business operators will try to hold the line, but eventually, they will have to pass that cost on to the consumer through higher prices for goods and services. Higher prices for goods and services mean that $9/hr buys less than when it was instituted.
Don't forget, if you raise wages for those at the bottom of the scale, to keep your other employees happy, their wages will have to rise as well. Labor costs will go up across the board, adding more cost to the system which will be passed on through higher prices.


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Old February 13th, 2013, 07:07 PM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

I think the ideal solution for minimum wage is to simply never raise nor lower the minimum wage until it effectively disappears. Minimum wage causes unemployment but if you abolish minimum wage all at once, the public would be furious (not to mention it would never pass Congress, with good reason).

Admittedly, I've only taken Economics up to a College Freshmen level, so I am not very knowledgable about it all. Politics in general aren'y my forte, but I enjoy discussing them when everyone stays civil.
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Old February 13th, 2013, 10:09 PM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

Being someone who makes less than $8 an hour, I love it.

Many countries have minimum wage rising on a yearly-quarterly basis, some countries minimum wages are over $15. Australia is one example.

It is also false that raising minimum wage raises the Cost of Living, although people reacting to it rising do cause the change, so it can be indirectly involved.

The minimum wage in the UK is £6.19 or $9.61. (odd how it's just rearranging the numbers, but funny, nonetheless. )

The minimum wage in San Mario is €7.04 or $9.47.

The minimum wage in New Zeland is NZ$13.50 or $11.44.

The minimum wage in the Netherlands is €8.48 or $11.41.

The minimum wage in Ireland is €8.45 or $11.36.

There are a few more, but the point is made. Other countries, all of which combined have a smaller economy than the United States, can have higher minimum wages, so why cant we?

More would be taxed out, so more taxes would be paid.

Besides, if minimum wage kept up with inflation, it'd be $10.58 now. If it kept up with productivity, it would be over $21.

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/facts/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2680639.html

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  #5  
Old February 14th, 2013, 12:05 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_X_Marker View Post
It is also false that raising minimum wage raises the Cost of Living, although people reacting to it rising do cause the change, so it can be indirectly involved.
This is absolutely, 100% incorrect and anyone that tries to tell you different is lying to you.

You know who pays minimum wage? Fast food restaurants and labor cost is one of the largest expenses they have. You pass a law that mandates they give all their employees a raise and they will raise prices or at least repackage items such that they are charging you the same amount of money for less food. So now that fast food employee that just saw a $1/hour raise, is paying more to eat the same food they ate the day before. Ergo, their cost of living has just increased.

Companies will maintain the same profit margin, you raise their expenses (ie. labor) and they adjust their prices/products accordingly. This will occur on many levels. When the guy making $8/hr gets a sudden raise up to $9/hr, the guy that was making $9/hr will not be happy about now getting paid the same as someone with less experience/fewer skills and thus demand a raise too. Then the guy making $10/hr sees the $9/hr get bumped up and will also not be happy about someone with less experience and/or fewer specialized skills getting the same wage as them, so they will want a raise too. This will go on and on. The wage scale exist for a reason.

Minimum wage jobs represent unskilled labor and are made available to those with little or no work history. Once they are hired, they can begin developing specialized skills and establish a work history that future employees can then inquire about to determine the employees potential worth. What one does with that opportunity is up to them. Once an employee has developed some marketable skills along with a good work history, they will be earning more than minimum wage as employers will see the value they bring to their company and reward it accordingly. Someone with no marketable skills and no proven work history represents a risky investment (job training cost the company money, employee turnover has a negative impact on a companies bottom line).

This idea that employees should be guaranteed a top wage even when they don't show up when scheduled, show up drunk to work, perform at a level far below standards, cause work place injuries to others due to carelessness, and countless other poor workplace habits is ludicrous. Once people know they will be given a good wage without being a good employee, the incentive to be a good employee is gone for many of them. A company staffed with poor employees provides an inferior product at a higher cost to market and before long goes out of business as a result.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 02:05 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_X_Marker View Post
The minimum wage in the UK is £6.19 or $9.61.
etc
The problem with that type of comparison is that it only looks at exchange rate. It's fine if the dollar price is pretty consistently about 1.55 per pound, but it usually is a lot more dollar friendly.

Some comparisons for ball park figures:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...ayCurrency=USD
I can't comment on how accurate the figures are. I know I get a gallon of milk a lot cheaper than that shows, and we usually get it on sale for even cheaper.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 08:57 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

From an economic theory perspective, it also increases unemployment and results in disequillibrium in the labor market. It acts as a Binding Price Floor which artificially increases the price of labor. Since the price of labor is higher than at the market equilibrium, employers will hire less workers.

It also increases the costs for the supplier which shifts the supply curve left, increasing the price of goods and decreasing the quantity of goods supplied at each price point.

So, in summary, it contributes to inflation, unemployment, and creates a market disequilibrium whose negative effects get passed on to consumers.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 09:23 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

I guy named Shawn Gately on Yotube has a good way of putting it. He finds minimum wage limiting. When he hires a worker, he's buying their services. He thus has to find someone who's services are worth minimum wage or more. He thus cannot hire certain people, because the service they offer would be worth around $3 an hour and he's not allowed to pay that.

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Old February 14th, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

I think a slightly higher minimum wage can be implemented without economic disaster. I don't think an extra buck an hour is a real solution to our economic problems but the minimum wage raise is certainly doable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_X_Marker View Post
It is also false that raising minimum wage raises the Cost of Living, although people reacting to it rising do cause the change, so it can be indirectly involved.
This is absolutely, 100% incorrect and anyone that tries to tell you different is lying to you.

You know who pays minimum wage? Fast food restaurants and labor cost is one of the largest expenses they have. You pass a law that mandates they give all their employees a raise and they will raise prices or at least repackage items such that they are charging you the same amount of money for less food. So now that fast food employee that just saw a $1/hour raise, is paying more to eat the same food they ate the day before. Ergo, their cost of living has just increased.
I don't find the fast food example to be very compelling. Personally, I find fast food to be pretty disgusting but the main reason is that going out to eat - even for fast food - is not a mandatory expense.

Quote:
Companies will maintain the same profit margin, you raise their expenses (ie. labor) and they adjust their prices/products accordingly. This will occur on many levels. When the guy making $8/hr gets a sudden raise up to $9/hr, the guy that was making $9/hr will not be happy about now getting paid the same as someone with less experience/fewer skills and thus demand a raise too. Then the guy making $10/hr sees the $9/hr get bumped up and will also not be happy about someone with less experience and/or fewer specialized skills getting the same wage as them, so they will want a raise too. This will go on and on. The wage scale exist for a reason.
Since you bring up the slippery slope, does this mean that the CEO of the supermarket chain will demand a raise eventually? What will he be making then? $10,000,001 a year instead of 10 million? I think if you're going to argue that minimum wage will seriously impact the cost of goods and services, you have to add what percentage of a company's expenses come from workers making a few bucks an hour. I'm not an economist, but I'd be surprised if wage slaves (to borrow Chomsky's term) make up a significant percentage of most companies' expenses.

Quote:
Minimum wage jobs represent unskilled labor and are made available to those with little or no work history. Once they are hired, they can begin developing specialized skills and establish a work history that future employees can then inquire about to determine the employees potential worth. What one does with that opportunity is up to them. Once an employee has developed some marketable skills along with a good work history, they will be earning more than minimum wage as employers will see the value they bring to their company and reward it accordingly. Someone with no marketable skills and no proven work history represents a risky investment (job training cost the company money, employee turnover has a negative impact on a companies bottom line).
There may be something here, but maybe not. Many minimum wage jobs are considered dead-end jobs and I know that my minimum wage jobs didn't do anything much for me. I needed to quit those jobs and go to school to gain marketable skills that society was willing to pay more than a few bucks an hour for. Quitting work and going to school are not always options for people at the bottom of the pay scale, however.

Quote:
This idea that employees should be guaranteed a top wage even when they don't show up when scheduled, show up drunk to work, perform at a level far below standards, cause work place injuries to others due to carelessness, and countless other poor workplace habits is ludicrous. Once people know they will be given a good wage without being a good employee, the incentive to be a good employee is gone for many of them. A company staffed with poor employees provides an inferior product at a higher cost to market and before long goes out of business as a result.
9 bucks an hour is far from a top wage. And it's not guaranteed to bad employees - people at the bottom of the payscale are the easiest to get rid of. The CEO is guaranteed big bucks even if he gets drunk in his big office or ruins the company. The $8 an hour guy is guaranteed almost nothing.

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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:06 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

Maybe this is the wrong way to look at it, but it seems to me that if a gallon of milk is worth half an hour of labor (more like 2/3rds an hour of labr, really, after taxes on both ends), then it will be worth an half an hour of labor no matter how many dollars an hour of labor is worth.

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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

Don't discount the effect of a minimum wage increase on fast food. A huge number of fast food restaurants are owned by franchisees, not the corporation. These are small business people that don't make millions a year. Let's say one restaurant has 30 employees averaging 20 hours per week. When minimum wage goes up $1, that's $20 more per week for each employee, or $600 per week for the restaurant. That translates into $31,200 more in direct labor costs alone to that small business man. There are not alot of small business people that can absorb that sort of pay cut without making changes - higher prices, fewer hours, fewer benefits. Then, factor in the higher prices that small business man will end up paying to his suppliers when they, too must raise their prices because their direct labor costs increased.

This example was for fast food, but it applies to every small business out there.

Edit: oh and multiply this effect 100-fold, 1000-fold, or even 10,000-fold for those corporations you feel can afford it.


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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:12 AM
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Re: $9 Minimum Wage

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Maybe this is the wrong way to look at it, but it seems to me that if a gallon of milk is worth half an hour of labor (more like 2/3rds an hour of labr, really, after taxes on both ends), then it will be worth an half an hour of labor no matter how many dollars an hour of labor is worth.
I think that's called inflation.


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