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Official Units Discussion of official HeroScape units |
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#121
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
The fun is in winning and trying your hardest to optizmize your army strategy, not in hoping your opponent's Sudema autokills your Q9 and leads him to victory.
I couldn't imagine rooting for my opponent's pieces to kill mine. |
#122
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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#123
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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I'm not a fan of high variance units like Sudema. I do like to play battles of well integrated and roughly equally matched armies. If I had to think of my favorite HeroScape battle, it would be Blade Gruts/Grimnak/Tornak/Arrow Gruts/Swogs/Krug/Mimring vs MDG/Roman Legionnaires/NGS/MBS/Roman Archers/Roman Gladiators on a very large map. The Roman/Marro army won due to well played Roman Archers. While I wouldn't bring Roman Archers to a tournament, they are fun to play and can be devastate opposing heroes. If this game were only about Q9, this would be a simpler and much cheaper game. I'll admit that it took me a while to realize that. |
#124
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
Heroscape is not chess. It is not a game with a static set of player assets and a finite and predictable board. Saying that playing what you consider a weak unit is no fun, means that you are missing how the game plays and is designed. If you draft and counter draft from the available resources of the involved players, it doesn't matter how competitive individual units are in your metagame world, your battle or scenario will have a dynamism to it that creates a more cinematic experience than a game like chess. The problem is that many of you think that Heroscape needs to be more like chess where your skills at the game are recognized.
Perhaps you do this so you have something to show for your involvement, but to me it is a sad ending to the original intent of the game which is to create fun and dynamic games that spark the imagination of kids, and bring out the kid in old guys like me. “Heroscapers is too old for that crap.” ~IamBatman "Hahahah! You losers! I told you so!!" ~Clancampbell |
#125
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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Guess I'm getting back into Scape |
#126
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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I'm surprised you even have opponents. This is pretty much the definition of fun murdering. Being so focused on winning indicates more about you and your character flaws than anything else. |
#127
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
I'm sorry, man, I have to say it: you're a jackass. For you it's all about min/maxing and having an uber-competitive build. Meanwhile, you've totally missed the point that you're playing with robot rats and bone zombies and doggins. Oh, wait, that's right - you don't play doggins because they're not TOP TIER.
I'm surprised you even have opponents. This is pretty much the definition of fun murdering. Being so focused on winning indicates more about you and your character flaws than anything else.[/quote] I would say that a bigger character flaw would be trying to insult individuals who have a different perspective than you do Just because you play to not optimize your points does not mean otherwise and it is sad if you think others need to act in the exact manner you do. I do not understand your point regarding robo rats, zombies, etc. Why would the type of unit affect my strategy of whether I try my hardest to win or not. I would never think: "since I am using fantasy creatures in this game I will not try as hard as I do in other games that use Victory Points or money" Since you play games not to win, when you pay Puerto Rico do you try to maximize your Victory Points or do you instead simply build the buildings that you like and pretend that you are a Plantation owner. By your comments I assume the latter. |
#128
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
This is an odd place for this old debate to break out, but whatever, I'll chime in. I guess I inadvertently started it with my math-scape.
The "would Heroscape be a good game with poker chips" question came up when people were complaining about the quality of the D&D sculpts. Many people, myself included, noted that we care more about the awesome new powers and strategies than the (arguable) small decline in average sculpt quality. Some anti-D&D folks came back with the obvious "would you play with cardboard cutouts, then?" question. For me, the answer is: well, probably yes if I knew how awesome the gameplay was, but the draw would not be as high. The aesthetics of this game are really pretty awesome. We have the best mass-produced terrain in the gaming world, period, and the figures are pretty high-quality. I probably never would have even known this game existed if a friend hadn't been drawn to those aesthetic aspects and introduced me to it. Aesthetics and theme represent a bar that a game needs to clear to draw my interest. Gameplay is what keeps me coming back. As amazing as Heroscape's aesthetics are, I wouldn't have gotten heavily into the game if I hadn't realized almost immediately that this was a very well-designed game with a ton of tactical depth. Quote:
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More to the point, I think that you're hitting on something that killercactus and I have been beating the drum about lately. Devil's Advocate is simply expressing the degenerate endpoint of the view of the game you get from looking only at double blind prebuilt armies. As you point out, the game was originally conceived to be played either in scenarios with set armies, or as a drafting game. The narrowing of the game to a relatively small set of "tier 1" figures is not a result of game design, it's a result of a particular way of playing the game (double blind prebuilt armies) that has happened to become very popular. If tournament play shifts more toward drafting events, the view of the game that D_A is expressing here (e.g. "the Master of the Hunt isn't as good as Kaemon, therefore he is a waste of points") will no longer make sense, even from a minmaxing, hypercompetitive point of view. |
#129
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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One of the things I like about randomness in games is that it offers an opportunity to make up stories for what's going on. If a Krav Maga Agent rolls no defense against a ranged attack when he had Raelin's support, I think about how unlikely that was, how that figure's back was actually turned to his opponent, so clearly he called "TIME OUT" and was tying his shoe but the Arrow Grut on the other end didn't listen. If Grimnak rolls a 15 to chomp Agent Carr, that was a narrow escape. Maybe he ghost-walked right out of the t-rex's mouth. But the math is fun too. Sometimes after a game, someone will say, what were the odds that that NotNW would get 4/4 skulls and your Q9 would get 0/8 shields? And I do a little mental math to figure it out. (4/4 skulls is a 1/16 chance, and 0/8 shields is 2/3^ 8 so.... 256 over... um, 3^5 is 243, 729, 2187, 6561, so... about 256 in 100000, so that's really unlikely ) Last edited by Jexik; October 30th, 2010 at 12:50 PM. Reason: funny thing is that this 1/4% chance happened to me in my 1st game playing Q9 |
#130
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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As far as my own attitude goes, I have fun winning, but if that were the only way I could have fun I'd feel like a sad, sorry little man. |
#131
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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#132
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Re: Horned Skull Brutes Pre-Release Discussion Thread
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I don't play Puerto Rico, so I have no real comment on that. I do play other games to learn and try new strategies, not just hammer on the existing ones ad nauseum. When I play Dominion, I try to draft new cards every game just to see how they work. I try to set up odd combos to see if I can do it. I don't just fixate on Chapel or Throne Room or whatever other proven card is in the mix. That's boring and the sign of a small mind - unable to adapt and learn and grow and try things that are harder simply because it's new and different and stretches your abilities. |
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