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  #13  
Old July 20th, 2009, 12:43 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

It is better to have Attack, than defense, because you can successfully Defend 1000 times, and still not be any further along... if your not also successfully Attacking.
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  #14  
Old July 20th, 2009, 12:45 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post

Sorry if anyone misunderstood, but no, I never cheat on any game I play. I was just trying to point out how rolling the dice can affect the odds differently than dropping.
I think what people are saying, and I certainly believe, is that rolling the dice in such a way that it alters the odds is cheating.
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  #15  
Old July 20th, 2009, 12:49 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Perhaps there is an aesthetically pleasing solution to the problem of dropping v. rolling?

~Aldin, proud owner of said solution

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  #16  
Old July 20th, 2009, 12:57 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post

Sorry if anyone misunderstood, but no, I never cheat on any game I play. I was just trying to point out how rolling the dice can affect the odds differently than dropping.
I think what people are saying, and I certainly believe, is that rolling the dice in such a way that it alters the odds is cheating.
Connection made. But I did not say to choose the side that is rolled. Just roll it. If it cheating, then I am sorry for not realizing it and I will stop.
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  #17  
Old July 20th, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post
No, no, what I am saying is if you roll the dice instead of dropping it, the way the dice lands can be different.

If you roll the dice, the side it is rolling on will mostly stay on that side. Thus, you could have a greater chance to roll a shield or skull, depending on the side it is rolling on. What I said above was that with a single dice, I prefer to roll it instead of dropping it so that I hope I can get a better outcome.

With dropping, your chances are more random than rolling. The dice jump around, thus making which side it lands on less predictable.

Sorry if anyone misunderstood, but no, I never cheat on any game I play. I was just trying to point out how rolling the dice can affect the odds differently than dropping.

MegaSilver
I question whether you can affect the outcome by rolling vs dropping. Maybe I don't understand your definition of "rolling" and "dropping". If while rolling, the die is tumbling end over end, I would be surprised if you can affect the outcome.

I would try 100 or so tosses to see if you come out with a statistically higher percentage of a particular desired outcome.
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  #18  
Old July 20th, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post

Sorry if anyone misunderstood, but no, I never cheat on any game I play. I was just trying to point out how rolling the dice can affect the odds differently than dropping.
I think what people are saying, and I certainly believe, is that rolling the dice in such a way that it alters the odds is cheating.
Connection made. But I did not say to choose the side that is rolled. Just roll it. If it cheating, then I am sorry for not realizing it and I will stop.
As long as when you roll you have a 1/3 chance of a shield or a 1/2 chance of a skull, that's good with me.
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  #19  
Old July 20th, 2009, 02:23 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

I'm sure it's not bad sport to ask everyone to use a dice tower in a game. No one can complain much (except for rotten luck) if your rolls suck coming through a good dice tower.

As far as skulls go, your right that it's about even when you MUST get an extra skull to do damage but the truth is that this is a game of chance.

Nothing showed that better then the Tourney in KC where BobofDeath got 4 skulls from one stinger attack and me failing to roll any shields with Q9 on the 2nd turn marker of a game.

It's all just rotten ole luck

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  #20  
Old July 20th, 2009, 03:21 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaSilver View Post
No, no, what I am saying is if you roll the dice instead of dropping it, the way the dice lands can be different.

If you roll the dice, the side it is rolling on will mostly stay on that side. Thus, you could have a greater chance to roll a shield or skull, depending on the side it is rolling on. What I said above was that with a single dice, I prefer to roll it instead of dropping it so that I hope I can get a better outcome.

With dropping, your chances are more random than rolling. The dice jump around, thus making which side it lands on less predictable.

Sorry if anyone misunderstood, but no, I never cheat on any game I play. I was just trying to point out how rolling the dice can affect the odds differently than dropping.

MegaSilver
I question whether you can affect the outcome by rolling vs dropping. Maybe I don't understand your definition of "rolling" and "dropping". If while rolling, the die is tumbling end over end, I would be surprised if you can affect the outcome.

I would try 100 or so tosses to see if you come out with a statistically higher percentage of a particular desired outcome.
If it can be done MegaSilver is wasting his time playing Heroscape. he needs to take those skills to the casino and play some craps where he can really break the house.

In Vegas a consistant statistical difference of only a couple of percentage points could earn you a ton of money.

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  #21  
Old July 20th, 2009, 04:35 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Megasilver, you've sealed your fate. People will be watching you like a HAWK when you play them at a tournament.

The golden rule is to toss the dice in a totally random fashion, and dropping or rolling them is OK either way and equally random.

I can see what you're saying - if you ROLL the dice and toss them where they're rolling on the axis with the 3 skulls, chances are 1:4 to miss the skull. We call that LOADING THE DICE, and the best solution is to use a dice tower or a dice cup to stop people from doing that.

Another ass-wipe way of rolling is to roll one at a time, so if one comes up with an unfavorable roll you can hit the dice and get a second randomization. I had to quash a guy from doing that at a tourney, and I wasn't very happy with it.

Either way, cheating is a good way to:
1. Be banned from playing in local venues.
2. Get accosted outside the venue and get your shoes, jacket and toys taken.
3. End up wondering why your 'friends' don't call anymore.
4. End up hospitalized with the doctor removing Major Q9 from your rectum.

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  #22  
Old July 20th, 2009, 04:47 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroc View Post
I don't know how many times I have heard (and maybe even said myself) that offense has an advantage in this game because there are three skulls and only two shields. People usually says that this makes it easier to wound someone than defend against a wound. This is not true.

In order to successfully wound someone you have to roll MORE skulls than they roll shields.

To get down to some numbers, if offense had an advantage then the probability of a wound should be more than .5 when you roll an equal number of attack and defense dice. However if you roll one attack dice against one defense dice then the chance of wounding is
(probability of a skull)*(probability of no shield) =
1/2*2/3 =
1/3.

This means that 2/3 of the time there will be no wound, or the defender wins.
You know, I had a similar insight a couple years ago, using less elegant math:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...9&postcount=26
If offense has an advantage over defense, I'm convinced it's not because of the skulls-to-shields ratio, but rather because of the flexibility of ranged attacks on uneven terrain.

Last edited by Elginb; July 20th, 2009 at 04:50 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #23  
Old July 20th, 2009, 04:51 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Gosh, I feel stupid for doing that. I don't know what to say...

I never meant what I said to be taken the wrong way. I never meant to appear as a cheater. I've never intended to be one. And now that I realize that I having been playing as one, I am deeply ashamed. I don't want to be labeled as someone whom I am not.

MegaSilver
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  #24  
Old July 20th, 2009, 05:00 PM
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Re: The great myth of Skulls versus Shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
I can see what you're saying - if you ROLL the dice and toss them where they're rolling on the axis with the 3 skulls, chances are 1:4 to miss the skull. We call that LOADING THE DICE, and the best solution is to use a dice tower or a dice cup to stop people from doing that.
Unless the roll is very short, I would be surprised if this could impact the roll. If it does, the roll must be very short and would attract someone's attention. I'll try this and see if I can get it to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Another ass-wipe way of rolling is to roll one at a time, so if one comes up with an unfavorable roll you can hit the dice and get a second randomization. I had to quash a guy from doing that at a tourney, and I wasn't very happy with it.
Rolling the dice one at a time should not affect the outcome. The outcome of a second die roll is independent from the outcome fo the first die roll. Even though it is annoying, it shouldn't impact the outcome of the game.
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