Power Rankings - Another Scaper's Opinion

[nyys]

Nah, big Z, though very good, isn't as scary as he's made out to be.

[mccombju]

Nice work, Killercactus.

In particular, I appreciate the emphasis you place on aggressive play in establishing these rankings.

[Elginb]

Originally Posted by atmospro

Are another set of ranking necessary?
Yes I agree that they are, but not the same type of rankings. You need to come at this from a completely different angle and not repeat someone else' work with your opinion attached. Change the format and change the criteria, be original.

Rather than a thread in which one person posts their own power rankings followed by lots of commentary, what I'd like to see is a thread that encourages everybody to post their own Power Rankings. If it's true that playing style influences the way we value each unit, then it would be interesting to see what everybody's personal Power Rankings are as a reflection of their personality...

[mccombju]

Originally Posted by Elginb

Rather than a thread in which one person posts their own power rankings followed by lots of commentary, what I'd like to see is a thread that encourages everybody to post their own Power Rankings. If it's true that playing style influences the way we value each unit, then it would be interesting to see what everybody's personal Power Rankings are as a reflection of their personality...

Personally, I think that having one person own and manage their own respective thread is my preference.

I feel that the type of thread that you propose would provide very little insight and become too cluttered.

Ultimately, power rankings will vary and be subjective. However, a listing provided by an amateur player will not offer the type of insight afforded by members whose rankings reflect a deeper level of understanding and play experience.

If you would like to start a "compilation of everyone else's rankings" thread, then feel free to do so. It might even turn out to be interesting (depending on who gets on board with the idea), but I suspect that it will become full of useless lists of units sorted into A, B, C, D, and F clusters.

Worse, I imagine that many of these lists will be either far too anectodal or excessively based upon Spider_Poison's list.

One of the things I like about analyses provided by certain members of this community (e.g. Killercactus, Jexik, etc.) is the contextual basis they provide for their opinions. Discussions of deployment and positioning help one to understand the optimal way to play certain units, so that, as a reader, you can begin to understand how to maximize a given unit's potential power. Laundry lists don't provide this utility.

[Tiny Timmy]

Okay, after looking at the list, I was dissappointed where cyprien is.

Now it should be known that Cyprien is one of the better hero's in the game. In my list I would love to give him an A+, but with his whole soulborg weakness would either put him down to an A or A-. I was dissappointed that he is a B unit. Now, like some people say he is overrated or cost to much points or even sucks, if I were to ask them to face me with a army that's not a soulborg army and with a different army each time, Cyprien would take his points 7 out of 10 matches, and at least 1 or 2 times will decimate your army. The 3 matches your able to kill him would be one of three things, you auto kill him, my defence sucked that game, or you have a high defence team or more defensive team.

People who have faced me in midwest tournaments will tell you, they are afraid of Cyprien. Those who think he is overrated, I am probably the reason why they think that, for those who think he sucks, they just don't know how to play him, and those who think he costs too much, they're right. I have never won a tournament with Cyprien, I've came in either 4th or 6th as my highest ranking. Most people who use him do not know his strength, running around taking on the least numerous group of figures, and taking on those pesky squad killers that will kill your whole army, like Zelrig. His weaknesses, Soulborgs, and armies that swarm very quickly, and the pure defensive armies like a whole army of 4th and 10th reg who could stay in their starting zone and wait and fire 4 times a turn. Of course those are is weaknesses, but two of them are almost everyone's weaknesses.

I do believe Cyprien is the third best hero next to the Two Q majors, and like Matthias and his knights, Cyprien and I are some of the top teams in Nebraska.

Well, now a very long response to your rankings.

Your A+ group is where i believe what are believed to be possible the two best units with what their main job are to do, also with how small it is. Rat's, very annoying, and Q9, sadly the best unit all round.

A's
MY only problem is Zetacron, with the exception of the two best fillers, everyone else has more then one attack, the one thing that makes many armies win, I would down Zeta to A- at least. Of course he is suppose to be played behind a veil of figures, but it's not enough with only one attack of double skulls.

A-
Cyprien is not in it.

B+
The Sentinals of Jandar and the Minions of Utgar should be in the same bracket in my opinion. Even with the Minions able to bond with Runa or Taelord, the Sentinals would still be able to act more better and even more offensively then the Minions. The best offence is when your not able to even kill a one unit without a squad killer or auto wound....

B
Roughly no problem, a more closer look would put me to taken some up and taking some down, but they're all good with just glancing at them...

B-
I believe it's even save for Kato, but my reason is because the starting zones are 24 hexes and for the ashigaru with 8 attacks and kato would put them at a 25 figure with a 500 point army....

C+ and C

I'd actually make the drudge, and many others C- or under.

C-
Shaolin monks could be a C squad. Your able to jump a good four spaces i believe, and attack more then once with each figure in the squad. I do not see how gorillanators get higher then they do...

With everyone else, I would only make Hatamato in the D- class and have really no one in the F class. In a 600 general themed army, Hatamato and the rest of the samurai can actually pull it off, saying if your going to take one of two armies, Kato, him and a bunch of tagawa archers or every samurai with counter strike....

[Oestedb]

I don't know if I would agree that the to Major Qs are the best heroes. I think Q9 is the best, Nilf is the second best, and I would make an argument that Kaemon ranks higher than Cyprien because of his ability to special attack twice from range. Cyprien is definitely up there though.

[Devil's Advocate]

Krug deserves to be an A. Krug is a huge threat for almost any army. Krug is alot more of a game changing force than Grimnak and Eldgrim who both are
A-'s. Not only can Krug crush most Heroes 1 on 1 but can be surprisingly effective vs squads with his high life, double attack, and wounded smash.

In the vast majority of situations Krug is Superior to Grimnak. Grimnak also encourages the spending of more points on Orcs who are good but not the best melee squad. Krug on the other hand can bond with range and also is more playable on his own.

Eldrgim while cheap has his value greatly reduced on maps without glyphs and is less splashable than Krug since many mass common armies he adds no benefit to

[Jexik]

Krug (and the Arrow Gruts) used to be an A in spider's rankings but were dropped down after Arrow Gruts started doing more poorly in midwestern tournaments. Codeman used to go 4-2, or 4-1 with them pretty regularly, but he started to go 3-2 and even 2-3 with them once. At one tournament where Codeman and I* both went 2-3 with them, Stingers and Mass dominated the top 50% of the tourney, and spider won that tourney with 'trons. He hasn't really played them since he won GenCon in 2006, largely because he thinks they don't quite measure up today.

Blastatrons, Valiant Mass, and Stingers really f them up. Heck, even Knights do.

Matthias Maccabeus won a tourney recently with both Krug and Mimring, but I have a feeling he wouldn't have played that army if that tourney hadn't given a bonus to using (and required the use of) Huge figures.

Krug is really only good if you can guarantee that most of your opponents will have a unique figure or squad that costs more points than he does.

*here's my battle report from that tourney

[Devil's Advocate]

The A ranking is not for Krug + Arrow armies but just for Krug. Right now this ranking has Eldgrim, Grimnak, and Krug as all the same ranking when in reality most people would fear Krug way way more than either of those other 2. It is rare for Krug to not take out his points. Almost no Hero will take him out and against many squads this is true too. In some senses he has free disengage too since many times it is better to not roll if he leaves engagement. Krug has potential to take out more points in the opposing army that almost any other Hero except Q9. I understand there are other purposes that killing (like Raelin) but Krug also influences a game in subtle ways

[Jexik]

But a lot of the time, he won't kill his points. He'll kill three squad figures and die.

In all three of my losses to those Valiant Mass/Knights armies, Krug killed less than, or barely over his points, and that was usually just by killing a support figure like Sir Gilbert who had already fulfilled the majority of his purpose by moving tons of squad figures up (and drawing attacks away from his squad figures).

[Devil's Advocate]

In your losses though weren't you using Krug and Arrows? I would probably prefer Krug and 5x 10th. Let the 10th take out the Knights with WTF so they can;t swarm Krug then let him clean up. The army is quite a good combo, the 10th Mass are very good anti squad and Krug is awesome anti hero. Even Mass Rats will not last long vs 4 attacks of 4 each turn

I don't think that alot of time that would happen where Krug dies so quickly. I think Q10 who is rated an A has a greater chance of a quick death due to a bad roll even if you factor in his added range safety. With 8 life and a minimum of 3 defense dice he should last a bit unless the map has lots of elevation and/or lesser played squads with 7 range.

I would be surprised if more people fear an opponent who drafts Eldgrim or Grimnak than Krug

[damja]

Thanks killer and good job! I like to see new perspectives about figures and their relative worth.

I'm happy to see the DW bump too (athough I wouldn't attempt to use Glass Jaw in a tournament I was planning on winning)!