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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #37  
Old August 9th, 2010, 04:26 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

For scenarios, in the past, we've just run a single test of the actual scenario for playtests.

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  #38  
Old August 9th, 2010, 06:01 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

Hahma, I am not sure why you have a problem with Drafting for a scenario. The Official game does it all the time, as it is a great way to allow players to make the game their own while giving each player the opportunity to counter (rock, paper, scissors) each drafted Hero with their own. For example, you draft Superman, I draft Lex.

I don't think you need to playtest every combination at all, as both armies would have the same point value and half of it is drafted, that is essentially what we do in every game anyways.

You should definitely rethink your logic on that and give the players a chance to create their own unique armies and have each game different and specialized to what "they" want to play with.
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  #39  
Old August 9th, 2010, 06:31 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

I think Hahma's uncomfortable with trying to account for that many variables in playtesting. Since most of us are pretty raw and inexperienced when it comes to putting together and balancing scenarios, I can understand his desire to keep things simple here.

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  #40  
Old August 9th, 2010, 06:58 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I think Hahma's uncomfortable with trying to account for that many variables in playtesting. Since most of us are pretty raw and inexperienced when it comes to putting together and balancing scenarios, I can understand his desire to keep things simple here.
I can understand that, but I think as a non-campaign scenario, we have the opportunity to allow the players to draft their own armies and experience a different game each time they play, and it would always be balanced on our part because the army points are equal, which leaves only the balancing in drafting which is completely up to the players. And I think it is cool to give them that flexibility and the opportunity to not only play with a bunch of different C3G units, but also learn what units counter other units, and that is cool.

I think by going with Hahma's suggestion, we would be taking a safe road that isn't really any safer honestly, but we would be loosing the cool factors that I mentioned above.
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  #41  
Old August 9th, 2010, 07:04 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

Well I'll give the drafting way a try, but like I said, I'm not going to do 100 tests on it to make sure it's balanced that way. So if people draft stupid, I don't want to hear any crap from them.

You also have to consider the defensible position the bad guys are in and the huge advantage they have in that regard. They can load up with cheap ranged units to put on the top of the building and make it so no opponent's hero can land there to fight them.

But, I'll at least give it a try. I can at least to my best towards that end.

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3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #42  
Old August 9th, 2010, 07:21 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

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Well I'll give the drafting way a try, but like I said, I'm not going to do 100 tests on it to make sure it's balanced that way. So if people draft stupid, I don't want to hear any crap from them.

You also have to consider the defensible position the bad guys are in and the huge advantage they have in that regard. They can load up with cheap ranged units to put on the top of the building and make it so no opponent's hero can land there to fight them.

But, I'll at least give it a try. I can at least to my best towards that end.
Cool.

Really what we are doing is giving the players the balanced armies with the drafting of 400 point balanced armies. As long as we trust our game and points system, we should be fine. Now the criminals do have some big time advantages, but I think that is cool that the good guys have to work really hard to overcome the criminals, and the cops btw, have better access to the Reinforcements glyph, plus lots of cover when they need it, and lets not forget their boosted attacks on commons, and the fact that player 2's army cannot attack while adjacent to all those Civilians that are running around..... I really believe what I posted is balanced as is, so thanks for giving it a shot at least.
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  #43  
Old August 10th, 2010, 09:55 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

Have one game done, 98 more.

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3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon

Last edited by Hahma; August 10th, 2010 at 10:31 PM.
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  #44  
Old August 11th, 2010, 02:43 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

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Have one game done, 98 more.
You are kidding right?
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  #45  
Old August 11th, 2010, 05:35 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

Well I said I wouldn't do 100, so technically, I didn't rule out 99. Let's hope it doesn't get that far . But really, I'm going to do as many as I think it takes with different units on both sides and different strategies and different placements of units in the building and everything. I have to make sure that the good guys can win and that the bad guys can win and different ways they can win.

I wouldn't do it justice just to run a few tests on it IMO. I got my second one started before work and may work on it later tonight. I'll just keep plugging away with it until I'm comfortable signing off on it.

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Last edited by Hahma; August 11th, 2010 at 07:10 PM.
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  #46  
Old August 11th, 2010, 07:08 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

Hahma, I do not know what else to say.

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  #47  
Old August 11th, 2010, 10:13 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

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Hahma, I do not know what else to say.
I only hope you convinced after a couple of tests. But thank you all the same.
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  #48  
Old August 11th, 2010, 10:37 PM
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Re: Hostage Holdout Scenario - Design Phase

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Quote:
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Hahma, I do not know what else to say.
I only hope you convinced after a couple of tests. But thank you all the same.
Well you're welcome. But a only a couple tests, not going to happen.

Let's just say that Punisher with extreme height is pretty nasty with his Assault Rifle. Add Pyro to really take care of a bunch of Cops right off the bat and Angel to both Carry them and protect them. Good times if you're a bad guy.

Now in game 2 I have Magneto and Atlaga with the bad guys. While Mags can't attack the Civs, he can Throw them (without rolling for wound) easily enough to better positions for his team, getting them so the are adjacent to Two-Face or Atlaga so they can kill them and getting them away from Thugs so they will be free to attack the Cops/Heroes.

In the first game, after getting to the Reinforcement Glyph with the first moved Cop during a turn, the 2 that became adjacent to him finished the Cops' move and got to the window and attacked the Thugs guarding the Civs by the window. Then those two Civs later escaped across the street and made the Angel/Punisher combo chase them down to kill them. In the game I'm in now, Magneto doesn't want any part of chasing Civs across the street, so he flew down there and Threw those 2 Civs up to higher ground. Good times.

Game 2 ended up being really close thanks to Spidey Sense keeping Spidey alive just about forever. Iron Man did a good job too for the good guys.

Edit:

Ultimately I don't know how much counter drafting is going to come into play as the Cops' team will always need a flyer/swinger/leaper and have defense/lives or defensive special power to keep alive long enough to take out the bad guys with range and height. The bad guys will always want ranged units mostly as well.

Strategy wise, don't activate the Civilians and they will stay alive longer. Also, fall back with the Cops until help arrives. So basically the 1st round for Cops should be spent getting out of range and LOS of ranged units in/on building, otherwise they get chewed up. After that they can help keep Heroes alive as they advance after round 2.

Time to get set up for game 3 before heading out for work.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon

Last edited by Hahma; August 12th, 2010 at 06:46 AM.
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