How DnD screwed up Heroscape

[Dr.Goomonkey]

Yeah the Shadow are a bit wrong, and same with the small bases... Treasure Glyphs I feel like were a good idea, just couldn't have been executed worse...

The only positive I can really see from it is the Uncommon Hero, though yes they are hardly ever used multiple time, I can see why they should exist. Dumutef Guard for example should have had more than one life, but since Uncommon Heroes didn't exist they had to make him a weakling Common.

Also with the focus of Heroes I feel like that would have been fine, if they still gave them synergies together, but it seems like not very many of the figures have any Bonding or Auras (yes I know a few of them do, it just seems like a smaller percentage than there should have been) and at least to me, often times the one who chose a more bonded army wins, and that's not how it works in DnD 'Scape

[AMIS]

Originally Posted by Dr.Goomonkey

Yeah the Shadow are a bit wrong, and same with the small bases... Treasure Glyphs I feel like were a good idea, just couldn't have been executed worse...

I agree with all of this!

Originally Posted by Dr.Goomonkey

The only positive I can really see from it is the Uncommon Hero, though yes they are hardly ever used multiple time, I can see why they should exist. Dumutef Guard for example should have had more than one life, but since Uncommon Heroes didn't exist they had to make him a weakling Common.

This not so much...Common heros when created properly allow for multiple figures on the board without the need for marking figures...the designers did well with what the were told to do but I feel uncommon heros were not required and really do not work well. Typical DnD rule change.

Originally Posted by Dr.Goomonkey

Also with the focus of Heroes I feel like that would have been fine, if they still gave them synergies together, but it seems like not very many of the figures have any Bonding or Auras (yes I know a few of them do, it just seems like a smaller percentage than there should have been) and at least to me, often times the one who chose a more bonded army wins, and that's not how it works in DnD 'Scape

Focus on Heros is a great idea...focus on fantasy only...not so much.

[Dr.Goomonkey]

Originally Posted by AMIS

Focus on Heros is a great idea...focus on fantasy only...not so much.

Oh I didn't even think of that, but you're right. HeroScape has always been the battle of ALL time, not just fantasy stuff. Good point.

Originally Posted by AMIS

Common heros when created properly allow for multiple figures on the board without the need for marking figures...the designers did well with what the were told to do but I feel uncommon heros were not required and really do not work well. Typical DnD rule change.

I'm not saying that Uncommon Heroes were perfect, I'm just saying they filled a niche that was missing. And honestly since they are never used as multiples, I don't see what the big problem with marking them is, since you 90% of the time won't need to.
Really the only example of them being needed is the Dumutef Guard, so I suppose that isn't much argument against the point that they weren't needed at all...

[Taeblewalker]

I think the Dumutef example is an excellent candidate for what should have been an uncommon hero. I also like treasure glyphs and shadow tiles. The focus on heroes was a welcome change from endless squadscape.

As for all the talk about Rifts and TMNT, I once created a character for each of these games but never really got a chance to play.

Regarding RPGing without minis, that's how we did it when I started back in 1981 with the Tom Moldvay Basic Set. By 3rd edition I started using a lot of cardboard minis which really helped visualize the game. Steve Jackson's cardboard heroes had some artwork that inspired some of the best NPCs I ever created. So while I have fond memories of playing without minis, I also think the RPGs can be greatly helped by them.

[AMIS]

I disagree about the Dumutef Guard. He needs help but not from an real expensive squad.

Try this army, for a quick 440:
3 x Dumutef
3 x Anubian
1 Werewolf Lord

Not the best but competitive, thematic and fun (Even using an Uncommon Hero)

[nate the dawg]

Originally Posted by AMIS

I disagree about the Dumutef Guard. He needs help but not from an real expensive squad.

Try this army, for a quick 440:
3 x Dumutef
3 x Anubian
1 Werewolf Lord

Not the best but competitive, thematic and fun (Even using an Uncommon Hero)

I like this army if I'm handicapping myself to the level of my opponent - such as when I was teaching my oldest son (then 9 yrs old) to play - but not so much in a competitive setting. The problem lies in it needing so many OM's to set up and run properly. There are a lot of meaningful choices in OM placement, and the slightest mistake can aide your opponent in tearing your army apart.

Both the AW and Dumie have good move but are burdened by their range of 1. If you move the wolves up first, you're often better off attacking with them as early as possible instead of spending OM's to bring up a cheerleader Dumutef. If you move the Dumutef first, it's not unlikely that the poor thing will be sniped/otherwise taken out while your wolves are trying to join the fight.

I love using the WWL, but again (without some sort of bonding) he requires an OM to move him into the fight. Though his high life might make the Dumie's relentless bonus a bit more reliable.

Sorry to continue a bit of somewhat off-topic discussion; I saw an army I've a bit of experience with and felt like commenting.

Merry Christmas everybody!

[blooded scion]

I always thought the lack of Marvel support killed heroscape.

[sam268]

Lol, how about, "how dnd saved heroscape"? It probably wouldnt have gotten another master set or for that matter three more waves out if it werent for dnd. However, I agree with you on uncommon heroes and shadow tiles. Shadow tiles look downright awful on heroscape maps, and dont make any sense, and uncommon heroes get confusing. But still I liked dnd all in all.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by sam268

Shadow tiles look downright awful on heroscape maps, and dont make any sense . . .

Shadow is difficult to place in such a way that it looks natural, but as for looking awful . . .

I have to strongly disagree.

[sam268]

Alright dude, that actually dose look pretty sick, but that is also a lot of shadow haha. I definitely like how it was used there, you might have just turned me into a shadow addict. Time to go to ebay.....

[AMIS]

You can use asphalt for shadow as well...at least that's what I do.

[ssnover95]

I think that WotC really missed an opportunity in not making the primary push of D&DScape scenario-driven. It started that way at first with the BftU dungeon crawl and the River of Blood, but it should've been the main drive. Scenarios would've given the opportunity to introduce new mechanics without profound effects on regular games and would've allowed a lot of new goodies for Heroscapers without "screwing things up" for the people that are nostalgic for classic HeroScape.

I see the major strength of HeroScape being it's utility as a combat engine over it's setting and lore. The setting really is great, if unrealistic, and was a very cool experiment in pulling a lot of themes and ideas together to attract interests of all kinds and it inspired customs of all shapes and sizes. However, as an engine, HeroScape can't be beat. And this is obvious from fan projects like C3G and HoSS which have used the engine to recreate entire universes around a game. The boundaries of this game's rules are highly malleable and what's already been explored in the realm of 'official' units was large to begin with.

It could be said that I was a fan of D&D Scape even though I hardly bought any of the units. I already had a plethora of D&D figures and customs to work with so there wasn't much point in pulling units I didn't much like just so I could play a particularly strategic army. What I enjoyed about D&D Scape most of all was the mechanics it introduced that pushed the boundaries of the game in ways that hadn't been done before, once again showing the malleability of the game engine.

Just my