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  #49  
Old July 16th, 2019, 11:30 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

To make it less dependent on Chandra how about they add a blaze counter, instead of recieving a wound from any special attack or a wound from lava damage.

They would take the lava damage or special attack wound if they already have a maximum of 2 markers on their card.

Last edited by The Long eared bat; July 17th, 2019 at 02:49 AM.
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  #50  
Old July 16th, 2019, 10:27 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

I remain firmly against Extinguish.



To my knowledge there are only 2 units that suffer from water (beyond what most units do of having to stop on normal water), one is a D list squad that is only useful on lava maps and the other seems pretty reliant on having a bunch and a hero to buff and revive them.


I've heard the flavor or thematic argument, and for one, this flavor is rarely used (and IMO for good reason) To me, there is nothing thematic about one member of a squad being in water and the rest being impacted by it. The obsidian guards and flame elemental, only punish the unit in the water. Also they are not made of fire, they are on fire. Water might temporarily make them weaker, but not for the rest of the game. To me there is nothing thematic about this weakness.


I've heard how this is a 2 space unit so it won't happen that often, if that is true even more reason not to bother wasting text space for something that won't happen that often but when it does has a very negative impact on the player who brought the unit.


I said early on if a weakness was born out of a need to tame the unit down, it feels right. If it's just because the unit looks a certain way then why the hell isn't our other fire based attacker also afflicted, and anything with anything resembling fire as an ability or in the their name also being penalized too?


Maybe most importantly, extinguish threatens to removed the most interesting thing about this unit because water is the opposite element to fire. There is no decision point here, stay out of water, like pretty much every other unit that isn't buffed by water or immune to it. Without the negative power, staying out of water remains on the units goals, we've added nothing and threaten to remove this units uniqueness.
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  #51  
Old July 17th, 2019, 12:50 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

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Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
I remain firmly against Extinguish.



To my knowledge there are only 2 units that suffer from water (beyond what most units do of having to stop on normal water), one is a D list squad that is only useful on lava maps and the other seems pretty reliant on having a bunch and a hero to buff and revive them.
The Obsidian Guard’s problems have everything to do with their poor move and high price point and very little to do with water weakness. The Fire Elementals are quite strong, and their Kurrok reliance has nothing to do with their weakness to water.

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I've heard the flavor or thematic argument, and for one, this flavor is rarely used (and IMO for good reason) To me, there is nothing thematic about one member of a squad being in water and the rest being impacted by it. The obsidian guards and flame elemental, only punish the unit in the water. Also they are not made of fire, they are on fire. Water might temporarily make them weaker, but not for the rest of the game. To me there is nothing thematic about this weakness.
I think the point about it being odd that one squad member stepping in water extinguishes the entire squad is a good one. It wouldn’t be the oddest thematic interaction in Heroscape, but it does undercut the strength of a power intended to be thematic. Otherwise, I don’t think it really matters whether or not they are made of fire or on fire. Either way water should clearly affect them somewhat.

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I've heard how this is a 2 space unit so it won't happen that often, if that is true even more reason not to bother wasting text space for something that won't happen that often but when it does has a very negative impact on the player who brought the unit.
We’re not short on text space here, and very negative is overselling things.

Quote:
I said early on if a weakness was born out of a need to tame the unit down, it feels right. If it's just because the unit looks a certain way then why the hell isn't our other fire based attacker also afflicted, and anything with anything resembling fire as an ability or in the their name also being penalized too?
I think the difference between a fire-themed unit and a unit that is either entirely made of fire or completely covered in it is fairly clear. There is far less reason to think that a fire-wielding mage should be harmed by water than a being that is constantly wreathed in flames.


Quote:
Maybe most importantly, extinguish threatens to removed the most interesting thing about this unit because water is the opposite element to fire. There is no decision point here, stay out of water, like pretty much every other unit that isn't buffed by water or immune to it. Without the negative power, staying out of water remains on the units goals, we've added nothing and threaten to remove this units uniqueness.
The point I will concede here is that having extinguish directly remove their markers is a bit weak of a direction and needs to be discussed more. How would you feel about simply reusing water weakness from the Obsidian Guards? That would accurately convey the theme of flaming units without being as extreme as Negative Element for fully fire-composed beings or having the thematic weirdness of Extinguish.
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  #52  
Old July 17th, 2019, 02:41 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

If they can regain markers then extinguish seems fine.
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  #53  
Old July 17th, 2019, 09:27 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

Jaur0n's argument is compelling. I'm still not against a weakness to water, but simple Water Weakness or the Fire Elemental's Negative Element may be better.

Or if we wanted something that ties to blaze, make it so that Firecats that start their turn in water are not boosted by Inflame.
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  #54  
Old July 17th, 2019, 09:28 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

<double post>
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  #55  
Old July 17th, 2019, 01:46 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post

Or if we wanted something that ties to blaze, make it so that Firecats that start their turn in water are not boosted by Inflame.

This one feels good to me if we are determined to have a water themed weakness.
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  #56  
Old July 17th, 2019, 04:37 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

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Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
If they can regain markers then extinguish seems fine.
Yup took the words right out of mouth in this one...
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  #57  
Old July 17th, 2019, 04:47 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

If we want a way to regain markers then we're going to need to brainstorm on that a bit. Heat Absorption wasn't much favored by pod members and I am strongly against a round-based d20 roll to regain markers--I think it clutters an otherwise very simple and exciting power with extra text, steps, and an extra trigger point.
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  #58  
Old July 18th, 2019, 10:03 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UKUSHIA PRIDE (Blazing Firecats) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
If we want a way to regain markers then we're going to need to brainstorm on that a bit. Heat Absorption wasn't much favored by pod members and I am strongly against a round-based d20 roll to regain markers--I think it clutters an otherwise very simple and exciting power with extra text, steps, and an extra trigger point.
Maybe these are the quick strike units (which are pretty good already as been said - without marker regeneration)... But we are talking about Extinguish being a mechanic...

Maybe simply rest:

If at least two order markers are placed on <UNIT> and no actions are performed by <UNIT> may regain lost marker.
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  #59  
Old July 18th, 2019, 10:05 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Blazing Firecats) - Design

[QUOTE=Jaur0n;2293846]I like the Ukushisa in the name. Ukushisa Hell Cats or Ukushisa Pride seems good. (I lean toward Hell Cats )

What is UKUSHIA in reference to? All I find is some japanese references... Just curious...
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  #60  
Old July 19th, 2019, 12:03 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Blazing Firecats) - Design

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Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Lions are the only big cat that hunt as a group. As a name what about: Ukushisa Pride.
Ukushisa is Zulu for blazing.
Right here, @Fakeraistlin


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