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  #37  
Old July 5th, 2019, 02:02 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Note, though, that the design already outclasses Tandros, whose only advantages are a weak range attack and a Life point.
And Cleave, which gives Tandros some multi-kill potential that this figure lacks. I could see going down to 3 attack here though, since heís not carrying any weapons other than the whip.
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  #38  
Old July 5th, 2019, 02:08 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
6 Life/4 Defense is quite beefy, but fine for a pure defender. If we go with an attack power (which I'm against at this point) we should lower one or the other.

Love Tether of Logos. Should also add that the figure ends its movement.

Combat Challenge is the better fit. First, his defensive prowess can (and is!) covered by stats. With Tether as the main focus, increasing defense as he takes damage is only cute; it does nothing to change how the unit is played with or against. Combat Challenge, however does, in a good way. That makes it ok for him to stay close to units he wants to protect without worrying about positioning enemy figures or them rotating around him to get to other targets.

Note, though, that the design already outclasses Tandros, whose only advantages are a weak range attack and a Life point.
Tandros overlap is somewhat concerning, especially because if yall go the Gladiator route he also starts to pick up those synergies too. Tandros gets Cleave too, but thatís usually a nominal bonus.

Would cutting his attack to 3 help? Or should you let Tandros keep his Combat Challenge and go another route?

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  #39  
Old July 5th, 2019, 02:43 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I really like Wounded Valor. Tether of Logos seems good. I feel like he's missing something though. I would think you would want a very defensive unit to be annoying outside being alive. Right now he seems like the kind of unit you would mostly ignore then focus fire down later.

Would adding a move check against adjacent units help create a need to kill him?
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  #40  
Old July 5th, 2019, 04:06 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

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Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
I really like Wounded Valor. Tether of Logos seems good. I feel like he's missing something though. I would think you would want a very defensive unit to be annoying outside being alive. Right now he seems like the kind of unit you would mostly ignore then focus fire down later.
Not if he's played well. Positioned correctly he'll be a real hinderance to melee. And a defender that requires order markers is mostly a failure a unit.

I'm not too concerned about the Tandros overlap; one would expect units of a similar role to have some similarities. My argument was mainly a cost one. And yeah, I forgot about Cleave, which makes Tandros more solidly offensive (range and Cleave), which makes the unit different enough, and adds to his cost.
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  #41  
Old July 5th, 2019, 04:23 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

If both Tandros and Gedion have combat challenge and an enemy figure is engaged to both, which one do you attack?
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  #42  
Old July 5th, 2019, 04:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

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Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
If both Tandros and Gedion have combat challenge and an enemy figure is engaged to both, which one do you attack?
Based on the text we have right now, Tandros. This is a fault of how the original power was written, which specifies the name of the figure that has it, versus the fixed version I suggested, which just specifies "a figure with Combat Challenge." Tandros fits both criteria, creating a slightly wonky interaction but it's a lot better than the strictly broken one we'd get if we left the power text unchanged.
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  #43  
Old July 5th, 2019, 04:46 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Would giving him Gladiator synergy be OP? Mind. you I dont know whats there for customs for Gladiators?
Ever have dual synergy? i.e. Soldier/Gladiator or this falls into the too complex or overpowered category?
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  #44  
Old July 5th, 2019, 04:48 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Does Logos trigger when a unit attempts to get away as well as passes by? I assume if the unit moves away it only triggers the once (on the second space).


If so and if it's a pretty decent change to trigger, I take back the non annoying thing I said earlier and think that and Wounded Valor are perfect together.
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  #45  
Old July 5th, 2019, 04:53 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

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Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Would giving him Gladiator synergy be OP? Mind. you I dont know whats there for customs for Gladiators?
Ever have dual synergy? i.e. Soldier/Gladiator or this falls into the too complex or overpowered category?
Gladiators have a fairly strong bonding squad and synergy niche. Plus, if we're keeping the Classical Greek angle than it's inconsistent with that theme which would be more of a Roman bent.

Soldier synergy is fairly minor and wouldn't be overpowered. Thinking about it, I actually kind of like it here, since most of what would apply to him would be movement boosts. Plus it's consistent with the Sacred Band, who are also Soldiers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
Does Logos trigger when a unit attempts to get away as well as passes by? I assume if the unit moves away it only triggers the once (on the second space).


If so and if it's a pretty decent change to trigger, I take back the non annoying thing I said earlier and think that and Wounded Valor are perfect together.
Yup, Logos triggers when a unit attempts to move away from this unit as well. This means it works even against figures with disengage, which is an interesting wrinkle that helps make this unit unique.
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  #46  
Old July 5th, 2019, 05:53 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

[quote=All Your Pie;2293910]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Would giving him Gladiator synergy be OP? Mind. you I dont know whats there for customs for Gladiators?
Ever have dual synergy? i.e. Soldier/Gladiator or this falls into the too complex or overpowered category?
Gladiators have a fairly strong bonding squad and synergy niche. Plus, if we're keeping the Classical Greek angle than it's inconsistent with that theme which would be more of a Roman bent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
Does Logos trigger when a unit attempts to get away as well as passes by? I assume if the unit moves away it only triggers the once (on the second space).


.

Ah I see your point ,didnt see bim as a (Roman) Gladiator just as a (Utgar) Gladiator. same as type Soldier.
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  #47  
Old July 6th, 2019, 02:24 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Somebody needs to sell me on Wounded Valor. I see it as little more than a bell/whistle with almost no gameplay change. On another unit, maybe a Menacer, I can see it building up tension. But I don't see any benefit here than an adjustment to stats wouldn't handle. Think about it. How would you play the unit differently with or without Wounded Valor? How about against it? Either way it's a defender that pulls other figures into engagement to protect other figures. The only thing I can possibly think of it to send a heavy-hitting hero at it earlier to reduce the bonus, but I probably even wouldn't do that since a heavy hitter will be able to crack the defense anyway.

On the other hand, Combat Challenge can drastically affect how the unit plays. He goes from a unit you have to throw out far on the front line to one you can keep together with other units. Very different usage, and better for a single-figure defender unit.
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  #48  
Old July 6th, 2019, 03:49 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Wounded Valor is just a fun thematic ability that is unique compared to combat challenge. Why does an ability have to make you change the way you play. Sir Dupuis has chalice of fortitude which doesn't change the way you play, neither does one shield defence or slither. Yes you could change stats but it doesn't give a sense of a warrior fighting it out to the death taking multiple hits. Wounded Valor could make you want to use disengage because it would make him stronger. The ability makes the opponent either choose a big hitting hero or multiple squad figure to take him out. It draws figures in to kill him because the opponent may get frustrated over the fact that he is nearly dead but keeps defending with increase defence.
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