Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > AotV Customs
AotV Customs A place for Arena of the Valkyrie Customs


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #25  
Old June 27th, 2019, 10:35 AM
Astroking112's Avatar
Astroking112 Astroking112 is offline
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Dallas
Posts: 3,017
Images: 39
Blog Entries: 59
Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
Thanks for the explanation.

I'd like to point out that the only one of those who has a shield is the one who is only to an extent a defender. My point is, some people seem a little too fixated on the appearance of the figure when Heroscape is littered with figures who's power and or purpose won't match too closely with the figure's appearance. It's a little dull to me to pigeon hole a character or reject an ability because it doesn't meet an eye test the creators obviously didn't restrict themselves to. (Race and faction likely being an exception)


I don't think I have a problem with this character fitting a defender role but it's an eye-roll for me that the main reason appears to be it's carrying a shield and not because we decided it should be or it happened organically.
I believe that the stronger reason for making him a defender actually comes from looking at the set as a whole. We want to give a wide variety of playstyles for people to play with, given that this is meant to be a Master Set on the level of Rise of the Valkyrie.

Looking at other figures and the general directions that have been proposed, we've seen a good number of offensive oriented characters already (Chandra with a Special Attack, Cyberpunk Jace with self-wounding to boost his attack and conditional mind control, the Eldrazi Ruiner with pulling in nearby figures to attack them all, etc.). On top of this, there are a good number of remaining figures that may fulfill similar roles, and have less of an immediate case for being defenders than Gideon does, given his "good guy" color scheme, pose, and shield.

We certainly could make something else a defender rather than him to fulfill that archetype, but I find it worth mentioning to ensure that all pod members are aware that it is a role to fill, and to offer another design direction to consider in contrast to Chandra, the Firecats, and Ob Nixilus. The details of such a design or whether to take that direction at all is up to this pod, although I do think that the case for making him a defender extends beyond him simply holding a shield.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old June 27th, 2019, 04:56 PM
All Your Pie's Avatar
All Your Pie All Your Pie is offline
 
Join Date: July 12, 2010
Location: USA - Arizona - Tucson
Posts: 2,674
Images: 8
All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

For what itís worth, we havenít decided unilaterally that this unit will be a defender yet. Itís simply that most of the suggestions so far have leaned in that direction. For my part, I decided to take inspiration from MtG Gideon in coming up with initial design ideas, and Combat Challenge seemed like the perfect fit. Combat Challenge as a power does not make this unit a defender 100%, particularly if we go with a power that strengthens him when he receives wounds instead of the movement-restricting direction. Alternatively, he doesnít have to have Combat Challenge at all.

I largely agree with your point that looking at this miniature and going ďwell, he has a shield and a whip, letís give him a shield power and a whip powerĒ tends to be a fairly uninspired school of design. That isnít the angle Iíve been approaching this from, however.

I do feel like we have a decent enough pool of ideas here that we can make a full design out of it. What are peopleís favorites so far? Iím pretty happy with my suggestion still, but Iím curious if anyone wants to pull in a different direction.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old June 28th, 2019, 12:03 PM
The Long eared bat's Avatar
The Long eared bat The Long eared bat is offline
 
Join Date: June 5, 2019
Location: UK - Hertfordshire
Posts: 202
The Long eared bat knows what's in an order marker The Long eared bat knows what's in an order marker
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I have another defender roll type power.
Battle valor: When [Gideon] defends, he receives one extra defense die for each wound marker he has.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old June 28th, 2019, 01:11 PM
Pumpkin_King's Avatar
Pumpkin_King Pumpkin_King is offline
A Happy Extradimensional Horror
 
Join Date: August 4, 2006
Location: VA-Culpeper
Posts: 7,923
Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death! Pumpkin_King is hot lava death!
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I think a Jandar gladiator would be a great mechanical and theme quirk.

I also like him as a defender or tanky role.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old June 28th, 2019, 09:08 PM
Fakeraistlin's Avatar
Fakeraistlin Fakeraistlin is offline
 
Join Date: September 3, 2018
Location: Canada ontario ottawa
Posts: 79
Fakeraistlin is surprisingly tart
Thumbs up Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I think a Jandar gladiator would be a great mechanical and theme quirk.

I also like him as a defender or tanky role.
Maybe also a Psionic Jandar Gladiator
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old July 2nd, 2019, 02:38 AM
All Your Pie's Avatar
All Your Pie All Your Pie is offline
 
Join Date: July 12, 2010
Location: USA - Arizona - Tucson
Posts: 2,674
Images: 8
All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I think narrowing down this unit's thematic angle will help to nail down our choice of powers. To me, this unit's armor and equipment look too fancy for a gladiator, at least put next to the ones we have from official 'scape. I could see him as a elite Greek hoplite or something though, which makes sense as I think Gideon's home plane is greek-themed. The whip won't fit in naturally unless we give this guy a D&D-based theme, but it could also be explained by being a piece of equipment given to him by an Archkyrie after his summoning to Valhalla.

I prefer a Greek or historical bent myself, as that will generally be hard to come by in this set and I think it works for the unit, and I haven't seen any particularly compelling power ideas for a more high fantasy direction. Additionally, if we're using the Tether power I suggested, then that's about as complex as the card can get--we can't put a second complicated power along with one that already has that much text. Combat Challenge or Bat's suggestion of Battle Valor would both fit the bill there, although I would prefer to pick one or the other instead of both.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old July 2nd, 2019, 09:41 AM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 10,272
Images: 471
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I think narrowing down this unit's thematic angle will help to nail down our choice of powers. To me, this unit's armor and equipment look too fancy for a gladiator, at least put next to the ones we have from official 'scape. I could see him as a elite Greek hoplite or something though, which makes sense as I think Gideon's home plane is greek-themed. The whip won't fit in naturally unless we give this guy a D&D-based theme, but it could also be explained by being a piece of equipment given to him by an Archkyrie after his summoning to Valhalla.

I prefer a Greek or historical bent myself, as that will generally be hard to come by in this set and I think it works for the unit, and I haven't seen any particularly compelling power ideas for a more high fantasy direction. Additionally, if we're using the Tether power I suggested, then that's about as complex as the card can get--we can't put a second complicated power along with one that already has that much text. Combat Challenge or Bat's suggestion of Battle Valor would both fit the bill there, although I would prefer to pick one or the other instead of both.
Agree with all this.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old July 4th, 2019, 12:49 AM
Fakeraistlin's Avatar
Fakeraistlin Fakeraistlin is offline
 
Join Date: September 3, 2018
Location: Canada ontario ottawa
Posts: 79
Fakeraistlin is surprisingly tart
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I think narrowing down this unit's thematic angle will help to nail down our choice of powers. To me, this unit's armor and equipment look too fancy for a gladiator, at least put next to the ones we have from official 'scape. I could see him as a elite Greek hoplite or something though, which makes sense as I think Gideon's home plane is greek-themed. The whip won't fit in naturally unless we give this guy a D&D-based theme, but it could also be explained by being a piece of equipment given to him by an Archkyrie after his summoning to Valhalla.

I prefer a Greek or historical bent myself, as that will generally be hard to come by in this set and I think it works for the unit, and I haven't seen any particularly compelling power ideas for a more high fantasy direction. Additionally, if we're using the Tether power I suggested, then that's about as complex as the card can get--we can't put a second complicated power along with one that already has that much text. Combat Challenge or Bat's suggestion of Battle Valor would both fit the bill there, although I would prefer to pick one or the other instead of both.
What kind of Greek hero, surviving spartan from Thermopylae? To use a whip rather than spear, the whip would have to be something really special to eschew chosen weapon ... Of the top of my head I cannot think of any heros that use whips except fictional characters from the 80s (Indy, Tigera etc) or Gladiators, Slavers, cowboys.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old July 4th, 2019, 08:49 AM
The Long eared bat's Avatar
The Long eared bat The Long eared bat is offline
 
Join Date: June 5, 2019
Location: UK - Hertfordshire
Posts: 202
The Long eared bat knows what's in an order marker The Long eared bat knows what's in an order marker
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I think narrowing down this unit's thematic angle will help to nail down our choice of powers. To me, this unit's armor and equipment look too fancy for a gladiator, at least put next to the ones we have from official 'scape. I could see him as a elite Greek hoplite or something though, which makes sense as I think Gideon's home plane is greek-themed. The whip won't fit in naturally unless we give this guy a D&D-based theme, but it could also be explained by being a piece of equipment given to him by an Archkyrie after his summoning to Valhalla.

I prefer a Greek or historical bent myself, as that will generally be hard to come by in this set and I think it works for the unit, and I haven't seen any particularly compelling power ideas for a more high fantasy direction. Additionally, if we're using the Tether power I suggested, then that's about as complex as the card can get--we can't put a second complicated power along with one that already has that much text. Combat Challenge or Bat's suggestion of Battle Valor would both fit the bill there, although I would prefer to pick one or the other instead of both.
What kind of Greek hero, surviving spartan from Thermopylae? To use a whip rather than spear, the whip would have to be something really special to eschew chosen weapon ... Of the top of my head I cannot think of any heros that use whips except fictional characters from the 80s (Indy, Tigera etc) or Gladiators, Slavers, cowboys.
As a back story the whip could be a gift when he was in Valhalla
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old July 4th, 2019, 12:32 PM
Fakeraistlin's Avatar
Fakeraistlin Fakeraistlin is offline
 
Join Date: September 3, 2018
Location: Canada ontario ottawa
Posts: 79
Fakeraistlin is surprisingly tart
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I think narrowing down this unit's thematic angle will help to nail down our choice of powers. To me, this unit's armor and equipment look too fancy for a gladiator, at least put next to the ones we have from official 'scape. I could see him as a elite Greek hoplite or something though, which makes sense as I think Gideon's home plane is greek-themed. The whip won't fit in naturally unless we give this guy a D&D-based theme, but it could also be explained by being a piece of equipment given to him by an Archkyrie after his summoning to Valhalla.

I prefer a Greek or historical bent myself, as that will generally be hard to come by in this set and I think it works for the unit, and I haven't seen any particularly compelling power ideas for a more high fantasy direction. Additionally, if we're using the Tether power I suggested, then that's about as complex as the card can get--we can't put a second complicated power along with one that already has that much text. Combat Challenge or Bat's suggestion of Battle Valor would both fit the bill there, although I would prefer to pick one or the other instead of both.
What kind of Greek hero, surviving spartan from Thermopylae? To use a whip rather than spear, the whip would have to be something really special to eschew chosen weapon ... Of the top of my head I cannot think of any heros that use whips except fictional characters from the 80s (Indy, Tigera etc) or Gladiators, Slavers, cowboys.
As a back story the whip could be a gift when he was in Valhalla
Utgar brought the spartan to Valhalla before he died, he wouldnt fight for them, treated harshly like a slave ( whipped) forced to fight as a gladiator in the pits Jandar frees him , he takes slavemasters whip as symbol and Jandar buffs it for use in battle against utgar and all his enemies.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old July 5th, 2019, 01:07 AM
All Your Pie's Avatar
All Your Pie All Your Pie is offline
 
Join Date: July 12, 2010
Location: USA - Arizona - Tucson
Posts: 2,674
Images: 8
All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla All Your Pie is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Utgar brought the spartan to Valhalla before he died, he wouldnt fight for them, treated harshly like a slave ( whipped) forced to fight as a gladiator in the pits Jandar frees him , he takes slavemasters whip as symbol and Jandar buffs it for use in battle against utgar and all his enemies.
I actually like that quite a bit. I'd prefer the Whip to be symbolic rather than literal but that's maybe the most hair-splitting critique I could possibly offer for what is otherwise a very good thematic direction. I can brainstorm/lift wholesale plenty of names for that as well when we get to that point.

For getting something up in the OP here, I feel we want something like

(Figure name)
Jandar
Human
Unique Hero
Warrior
Valiant
Medium 5

Life 6
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4

Points: ???

Power 1:
Tether of Logos

When an opponentís small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of (figure name) that is no more than (X) levels above his height or (X) levels below his base for the first time in a turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an (X) or higher, that figureís movement ends and you may immediately place them on any (same-level?) space adjacent to (figure name). If that figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Power 2:
Combat Challenge
(possible fixed text)
Figures engaged with (figure name) may only attack figures with the Combat Challenge special power.

OR

Wounded Valor
(Battle Valor is already taken by Capt. John Varan.)
Add 1 to (figure name's) defense value for each wound marker on this army card.

I'm fine with either direction. Combat Challenge could be seen as somewhat superfluous. I think it could also be interesting to give this figure some variant of Wounded Smash as was brought up earlier as I think a Defender that absorbs damage in order to transition into something of a shark could be pretty cool. Any of these options are something we could return to if the unit just feels fundamentally flawed in testing.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old July 5th, 2019, 01:58 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 10,272
Images: 471
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

6 Life/4 Defense is quite beefy, but fine for a pure defender. If we go with an attack power (which I'm against at this point) we should lower one or the other.

Love Tether of Logos. Should also add that the figure ends its movement.

Combat Challenge is the better fit. First, his defensive prowess can (and is!) covered by stats. With Tether as the main focus, increasing defense as he takes damage is only cute; it does nothing to change how the unit is played with or against. Combat Challenge, however does, in a good way. That makes it ok for him to stay close to units he wants to protect without worrying about positioning enemy figures or them rotating around him to get to other targets.

Note, though, that the design already outclasses Tandros, whose only advantages are a weak range attack and a Life point.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > AotV Customs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Book of Gideon Jura, Combat Mage quozl Official Units and Spell Cards 20 February 26th, 2019 04:30 PM
The Book of Gideon's Phalanx SPELL Ninja Status Official Units and Spell Cards 18 September 6th, 2016 08:26 PM
Combat Arms Bothell_is_Awesome Video Games 1 March 17th, 2009 06:04 PM
Combat Movement Kepler Other Customization & HS Additions 2 September 26th, 2008 09:14 AM
Combat Arms! temp.nerd Video Games 5 August 19th, 2008 08:56 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:44 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.