The Book of Black Lantern (William Hand)

[IAmBatman]

Not sure. I'll go with what you guys think is best here.

[fret_gurglo]

Ok. I've done some searching and could not find any direct answer to the "would be destroyed" wording. However I have come up with a list of items I think should be discussed or at least clarified. To facilitate responders I will be putting numbered notes beside points of interest.

For Reference:
Black Lantern
BLACKEST NIGHT 9
If an enemy figure that is not an Android, Construct, or Undead would be destroyed by this Black Lantern's attack or special power, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 9 or higher, place a black Battery Marker on each Black Lantern card you control, if possible. After rolling, if the destroyed figure was a Unique Hero, you may remove a black Battery Marker from this card. If you do, remove all Order Markers from that card, take control of that Hero and its card, and place or remove Wound Markers until the Hero has up to 2 Life remaining.

Switching figures:
Doombot
DECOY OF DOOM
If you control Doctor Doom, and he is destroyed, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 6 or higher, remove all but one wound marker from Doctor Doom's Army Card, destroy one Doombot you control, and place Doctor Doom on the space previously occupied by the destroyed Doombot. You may only roll once for all Decoy Doom special powers each time Doctor Doom is destroyed.

Phoenix
PHOENIX BIRTH
You may draft a Jean Grey figure with the Merciful personality. If you do, Phoenix does not start the game on the battlefield. Your Merciful Jean Grey must use the Phoenix Fire special power, and when Phoenix Fire refers to Phoenix, it refers to your Merciful Jean Grey as well. When your Merciful Jean Grey is destroyed, switch her with Phoenix.

Bruce Banner
MONSTER WITHIN
Anytime this figure receives one or more wounds or is destroyed, switch this figure, if possible, with another Bruce Banner figure you control. Switched figures will not take any
leaving engagement attacks.

(1) These 3 have the condition "is destroyed". Therefore the "would be destroyed" condition of the Black Lanterns should occur and they should receive a Black Battery Marker.
(2) However, the next part of their power refers to the "destroyed figure". This would seem to allow both powers to activate at the same time, resulting in a roll-off to determine which power activates first and therefore preventing the other power from occurring at all. In each of these cases, if the Black Lantern should win, it would effectively destroy any figures not on the battlefield that would have been able to switch. (Seems like an easy way to take out the Hulk)

Aaron Cash
PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime a figure you control adjacent to Aaron Cash would receive one or more wounds, you may instead have Aaron Cash receive those wounds.

(3) This is another unusual case I found. What if a Black Lantern were to deal 1 wound to Ant-Man (or any figure with 1 Life remaining) and Aaron Cash at full health jumps in to take that damage instead. Would this trigger the first part of Blackest Night? Does this meet the "would be destroyed" condition as it would destroy Ant-man?

(4) What about figures with Mental Shield or any other power that would prevent opponents taking control of their figures. If the figure is destroyed, then all powers on that figures card are no longer active. Does this mean that Black Lanterns can take control of these figures?

Hercules
OLYMPIAN FORTITUDE
Whenever Hercules would be destroyed or receives enough wounds to be destroyed in any way except by this special power, he instead receives two wounds.

Beast Boy
BEAST FORMS
You may draft this figure into the same army with any other Gar Logan figures that do not have the species of Metahuman. Start the game with this figure on the battlefield. You can only control one Gar Logan figure on the battlefield at a time. If another Gar Logan figure you control would be destroyed, instead place two Wound Markers on this card and immediately replace the Gar Logan figure you control on the battlefield with another Gar Logan figure in your army, if possible. If this Beast Boy is destroyed, all Gar Logan figures you control are destroyed.

(5) And finally back to my original question. Does the "would be destroyed" on either Beast Boy or Hercules circumvent the "would be destroyed" on the Black Lanterns or do both power activate or is it a roll-off? I would guess that both powers would activate. This would allow (especially in the case of Beast Boy) multiple batteries to be placed without actually destroying a figure.

(6) Reading Beast Boy's powers I don't think the Black Lanterns can ever steal control of him unless the Metahuman figure is the one attacked and destroyed. If an animal "would be destroyed" it is switched and never actually destroyed. This would trigger the first part of Blackest night, but not the second. If this results in enough wounds to destroy the metahuman Beast Boy, then it was never on the battlefield to take control of. The second part of Blackest night refers to "the destroyed figure". A little vague, but definitely implies it is referring to the figure that would be destroyed (the one that was just attacked).

[Dysole]

There was a discussion in the Dark Phoenix thread detailing how the power worked with Skrull Infiltrators and the general thought process was that the wording would need to be updated (still waiting on it) so that the Phoenix progression takes precedence.

Now then, we need to check first what is happening mechanically and thematically. Mechanically, "destroyed" is "leaves the battlefield". It is slightly more complex than that as figures can leave the battlefield without being destroyed so I guess we can expand it to "leaves the battlefield as a result of an action taken against it". Now, thematically it means the figure is dead.

So what triggers destruction? Receiving wounds greater than or equal to your life total or being the target of an ability that removes figures regardless of wounds.

Now for precedence. If we rule that Hand can use his power on any of these figures, then so can the Skrull Infiltrator. And for pretty much all of these cases, Skrull Infiltrator or Hand taking control is thematically weird.

Honestly, I don't think Hand should get to use the power unless the figure is actually removed from the game. So I would think that Hercules and Pluto would not trigger Blackest Night unless they are actually leaving the battlefield.

Secondly, Cash's power takes effect before you would check for destruction so I would rule no dice there. As for a Mental Shield figure, thematically and mechanically I can make the case but it feels wrong.

~Dysole, not sure why the Black Lantern wording isn't just "When this Black Lantern destroys..."

[IAmBatman]

I think the reason is that folks would then read the first line, remove the destroyed figure from the battlefield, and later clauses that include removing wounds and taking control of the figure would become confusing (as in, where, physically, is the figure at that point?).

[quozl]

Yep, the rest of the wording needs to change too.

How's this?

BLACKEST NIGHT 9
If an enemy figure that is not an Android, Construct, or Undead is destroyed by this Black Lantern's attack or special power, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 9 or higher, place a black Battery Marker on each Black Lantern card you control, if possible. After rolling, if the destroyed figure was a Unique Hero, you may remove a black Battery Marker from this card. If you do, place that Hero on the space it previously occupied, remove all Order Markers from its card, take control of that Hero and its card, and place or remove Wound Markers until that Hero has up to 2 Life remaining.

IIRC, we were trying to cut down the wording so we may need to check if that fits on the card.

[IAmBatman]

Looks good to me, @quozl ! What do others think? @Viegon - wording updates have kind of become your management area. And @Ronin too.

[Viegon]

quozl's suggestion seems to cover all the issues as far as I can tell. With the Phoenix case, I assume that Phoenix would get first placement, meaning that if the Black Lantern takes over Jean Grey she wouldn't have a space to be placed on and is effectively re-killed. Or would it be a dice-off where the reverse could happen to Phoenix?

[Ronin]

If we ever get around to that Phoenix wording update, I think her transformation would end up taking the form of a "switch this figure instead of destroying it" kind of deal, so in that case Blackest Night wouldn't even be triggered. The Phoenix issue is probably something we should put on our agenda. That's been left sitting a while.

[japes]

Used a Lego figure cape on a painted Super-Adaptoid figure to create our Black Hand. Still have some work to finish him up but he works for now. Green Adaptoids for the Uncommon Lanters...all figures were less than $0.45 a piece and took a few minutes of work.

[Tornado]

Nice japes.

[japes]

Also handy knowing that Lego capes can fit Heroclix figures pretty neatly. I know I've seen templates online for DIY lego capes as well.

[Tornado]

That is good to know!