The Book of Marro Gnids

[MegaSilver]

That question needs to be transferred to Mok's Book.

[caps]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I don't really see that as a possible interpretation. A Viking on the army card still belongs to the person it belonged to before, so there's no reason a gnid's control would change hands either. When it says "you now control that army card and all figures on it" what it means is that you control the figures belonging to the army card--the figures that are in the picture and therefore "on" the army card.

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by White Knight

What about:

Wouldn't the dwarf figures on the army card be considered as part of "all figures on it"? So since you took control of Mok and all figures on his card, you now control the dwarves on that card. Doesn't that mean they are switching sides also?

Perhaps a "for example" would be be good here to illustrate what caps has said...

Ne Gok Sa successfully Mindshackles a Krav Maga Agent since they are unique. Now, you look at their card and see that the profile picture on the card has three agents. That means that any of those three agents that are still on the battlefield are now under your control because the pictures of those figures are on the army card.

Now say there is one destroyed KMA. You look at the profile picture and see three agents. That means you now control the two agents that are remaining on the battlefield because the picture of those two agents are "on the army card". "All figures on it" refers to the profile picture on the army card, not miniatures that are on the army card.

The wording was created by the original designers to prevent partial control of a squad. It is about the figures that belong to the card, not the minis that are sitting on it.

So, with the gnids, if you mindshackle a unique hero that has gnids on it, you look at the picture on the card of the unique hero, see that he is the only figure "on that army card" and so he is the only one you now control since the gnids are not pictured "on the army card". Does that help any?

[MegaSilver]

Bingo. That's LamaClown.

[nyys]

The point of controling the Gnids that are clinging to a mindshackled unit is sort of moot anyway. Once the Gnids Cling, they're effectively out of the game other than the detriment they're causing to the unit they're clinging too.

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

The wording was created by the original designers to prevent partial control of a squad. It is about the figures that belong to the card, not the minis that are sitting on it.

So, with the gnids, if you mindshackle a unique hero that has gnids on it, you look at the picture on the card of the unique hero, see that he is the only figure "on that army card" and so he is the only one you now control since the gnids are not pictured "on the army card". Does that help any?

I guess my question is:

"Who control figures placed on a card after a figure to whom the card belongs is Mindshackled?"

Possible choices:
1) The original person who placed them on the card still controls them (since the figure's picture is not on the army card)

2) The person who Mindshackled them now controls them (since the card says: "and all figures on the card", and they have been placed "on the card")

3) Nobody controls them (a figure placed on a card leaves your army and control and become like a glyph on that card)

I'm thinking that #3 is the right answer here. They don't belong to anyone--and so they stay with the card wherever it goes.

That does bring up the possibility of having two Finn Spirits on the same army card (if your opponent's Finn dies, you Mindshackle the card with his Spirit, and then you place your Finn on that card).

[caps]

#1 and #3 are functionally the same, excepting a few odd corner cases, but #1 is technically the right answer.

If #3 were the case, it would be possible for me to Mindshackle someone else's Finn if my Finn were on one of my cards that had been Mindshackled. Since #1 is the case, I cannot Mindshackle someone else's Finn no matter who controls the army card my Finn stands on since that would mean having two Finn's in my army.

Note that two Finns could be placed on the same army card even if there was not Mindshackling involved, since two players could each have Finn and each place him on the same army card (this has probably happened in team games before).

[DanieLoche]

... Now I'm thinking about an Hydra with 2 Finn's spirits... Ow...

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

#1 and #3 are functionally the same, excepting a few odd corner cases, but #1 is technically the right answer.

This is correct. One case it does matter is with the Glyph of Sturla (Revive). If someone Mindshackles my Agent Carr with my Finn on it, then Finn is resurrected by Sturla, I get Finn back, not the Ne-Gok-Sa player.

It's also technically possible to put Order Markers on dead cards. This matters for Thanos.

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by DanieLoche

... Now I'm thinking about an Hydra with 2 Finn's spirits... Ow...

That can't happen as you can't mindshackle two of a unique card.

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy

That can't happen as you can't mindshackle two of a unique card.

No, but two different players can put their own Finns onto the same card.

[Xotli]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

If #3 were the case, it would be possible for me to Mindshackle someone else's Finn if my Finn were on one of my cards that had been Mindshackled. Since #1 is the case, I cannot Mindshackle someone else's Finn no matter who controls the army card my Finn stands on since that would mean having two Finn's in my army.

Do you have a reference for this? This is not exactly the same as the Mind Shackle R&C in the official FAQ.

Originally Posted by Scytale

This is correct. One case it does matter is with the Glyph of Sturla (Revive). If someone Mindshackles my Agent Carr with my Finn on it, then Finn is resurrected by Sturla, I get Finn back, not the Ne-Gok-Sa player.

That one I definitely agree with. Of course, this is irrelevant for the Gnids, since they can't be resurrected, as they haven't been destroyed.

In fact, nyys is right: while the question of who "controls" a Clinging Gnid (or Dwarven Gunner) might be interesting to debate, in the end it doesn't matter a whit. If you mindshackle a dude with a Gnid stuck on him, you get the penalty. If you mindshackle Mok with a dwarf riding him, you get the SA. The issue of "control" doesn't really enter into it, since those figures don't actually do anything. They provide bonuses or penalties due to their presence, but they can't take actions or moves or anything like that.